УНН News of the World ✎ Romania spent about 1.5 million euros over three days to shoot down three Russian drones. Most of the costs are AIM-9X missiles
worth $400,000 each.
Sadly, you‘ll hardly find the discussion you‘re longing for on here.
lemmy.world has an extreme western bias and is intolerant towards voices critical of the west.
Whatever narrative is the currently one preferred from the Zeitgeist, will get (partially pro-actively) amplified here. Arguing for the genocidal practices of Israel and excusing any kind of support from US and European states is still accepted. Being critical, doubtful or in opposition to the Ukraine war is frowned upon and will get you called names.
Repeating islamophobe, sinophobe and russophobe stereotypes is part of the etiquette.
Yes, I’m a Magician, let me try summoning some of this stuff with this spell:
The Ukraine war is a proxy war between NATO and Russia with the sole purpose to weaken Russia as long as it needs for the Europeans to militarize and take up Russia on their own. The Ukrainian people will have to suffer as long as it takes, as several US and European politicians have acknowledged. This is the goal, so the US can focus on the indo-pacific and ultimately, together encircle China, the main enemy, as stated in the US National Security Strategy papers 2022 and 2026. But alas, accepting that US and EU are the problem for world peace would also mean dropping the nationalist rose glasses. Or actually reading this kind of stuff.
You realize that Russia started the war, right? I agree that it is used by Western nations to get a shot at weakening Russia now that it’s going and that the US does not want peace but neither does Russia
Okay, cool. You also realize that war is an ultima ratio, right? You surely also agree, that history didn’t start on 24 February 2022 or February 2014. Man this feels like “history didn’t start on Oct 7th” all over again.
Do you also agree, that the US and the EU did have geopolitical agendas and plans long before the Krim was annexed and do you also agree, that these plans where worked at and pushed for in the real world? And could these plans involve forcing Russia into a situation where they either have NATO military on their main border towards Western Europe or act to protect their sphere of influence?
Or – do you want to tell me, that US/EU only started acting after Russia involved itself physically in Ukraine?
The Ukraine war is a proxy war between NATO and Russia with the sole purpose to weaken Russia as long as it needs for the Europeans to militarize and take up Russia on their own
Yes, it’s all NATO’s fault that Russia decided to invade Ukraine.
This is a war started by russia. Which russia continues. Yes, it’s a proxy war. That much is obvious. But the reason for it is russia. Not NATO trying to weaken russia. Unless you’re trying to claim that NATO started the war somehow. And if you claim that russia was forced to start the war because NATO was encroaching on their territory then you’re showing your true colors. Or you’re putting all of the blame on the prolonging on NATO. If your argument is that this is NATO’s fault because they’re supporting Ukraine then you’re showing you’re true colors again. And if you’re not, then what’s your argument?
Doomed if I do, doomed if I don’t. Now isn’t that a great situation.
Tell me, what it means to show my “true colors”? You mean when my own analysis and knowledge of this war comes to the conclusion, that yes, it’s straight up a NATO instigated war, then what? I’m a tankie? A putin troll? You do realize for one, that this is a childish reaction and also that it’s a widely accepted perspective, right? Yes, I identify the West as the main malevolent player, but that doesn’t mean I side with Putin or excuse the war or anything. That logical leap is just dishonest badmouthing. But that’s what you want to do, if you talk about “true colors”, right? Pure cowardice.
Have you read the Russia and China parts of the US NSS papers I cited earlier? What do you conclude from that?
Well, first of all, the US is not NATO. So those papers relate to the US more than they relate to NATO. Nobody here is defending US imperialism. We’re not talking about that, that’s just whataboutism which always appears when russia or china is criticized. No surprise there.
Second of all, how many wars has NATO started? Not intervened in. Started. And how many had russia? Pretty sure russia wins that competition. So yeah, I think it’s fair that russia’s neighbours ask for help to defend themselves when they look at that track record.
Third, “widely accepted” is debatable. And even if it’s true, since when does popularity decide what’s fact?
And lastly, you keep repeating and are being sarcastic towards people that are avoiding russian propaganda both here and in other threads. I’m sure it could be just a coincidence, but I don’t really believe in those kinds of coincidences.
And since you really don’t need to be a Communist or Putin-Troll to have a more sober perspective on this war, you could also just learn from people like John Mearsheimer, a so-called neorealist, western political scientist based in NY, who actually just started a YT-Channel of all things. And in his first proper video, he explains his perspective on the origins of the war in Ukraine.
The US is the dictating force of NATO, without the US there would be no NATO, claiming otherwise is either cope or ignorance. Yes, there are factions in NATO, but ultimately NATO does what the US wants. The US is the world hegemon and their NATO friends mere junior partners. So naturally, US foreign policy is extremely relevant to NATO policy and if you’ve actually read the papers, which you haven’t 😝, you’d find out the following:
The US National Security Strategy (2022) says its top priority is “out-competing China and Constraining Russia” and that a key goal is that “Russia’s conventional military will have been weakened” (p.23, p.26). Which is exactly what they’re working on by letting Ukraine bleed out for their interests.
Let’s stop pretending that any of the western nation states are actually interested in the well-being of the Ukrainian (or their own) people. The US and several European states are actively deporting men that fled the war, only for them to be put in suicide squads at the front. These states do not give a shit about the people, these are wars in the interest of the capitalist class. And this is clearly not an idea originating from the invasion. But I’m not going to collect 20 more sources, that which I think you won’t read or even accept as valid. These comments already are quite time consuming.
By now, the US National Security Strategry (2026) shifts to “prioritize deterring China” and says NATO allies should take “primary responsibility for Europe’s conventional defense” (p.10, p.11). And we know, that defense is an euphemism for “defending the interests of capital, by using force”. Well, I do, not sure about you.
In practice this means, that the European NATO countries are supposed to fight the eastern flank by their own, hence the remilitarization and extreme anti-Russia propaganda, while the US can focus to build up militarily for a potential war with China.
Overall, it’s an offensive, belligerent strategy to remain the world’s sole super power by force. China with their economic strategy is taking over, the US is trying to stay on top. Part of that strategy is to isolate China by first disintegrating Russia. Some mad men even talk about the “decolonization of Russia”, which means to Balkanise the huge state into lots of smaller, easier to handle US puppet regimes.
And that’s just the official strategy, nothing covert, no shenanigans, just the immediate concrete outlook into their general future plans, supported by several scholars and analysts.
Nobody here is defending US imperialism. We’re not talking about that, that’s just whataboutism which always appears when russia or china is criticized. No surprise there.
Ya, nobody needs to proclaim “I support US imperialism”, but most of you proactively do just that. To never actually deal with the realities of how and why the Empire acts on the world stage. Instead what always happens is to only circlejerk on the West’s enemies and attack any critique of their beloved nation states, which is in practise doing the deeds for US Imperialism. And that’s what’s happening on most .world and .feddit comms. A bubble, where even self-prescribed leftists, anarchists and pseudo-communists will defend the wars of the Empire. It’s sickening.
Third, “widely accepted” is debatable. And even if it’s true, since when does popularity decide what’s fact?
No, not a popularity contest, but I call to realize that there’s thinking people outside of the Western sphere of influence. It’s nice that it’s “debatable” in Western circles, but that’s not the reality world wide over and us here being free to debate it in the west doesn’t change the dynamics, because it’s not our wars, it’s the wars of the capitalist class, we are the human material they use to fight them.
Second of all, how many wars has NATO started? Not intervened in. Started.
This isn’t a competition on who started how many wars. I also don’t know why you feel the need to construct your demand in such a specific way. When NATO “intervened” in Bosnia, they actually started an imperial war out of geopolitical strategic interests. Just because you’re getting sold a different story, doesn’t make it a reality. Every NATO operation is one too many.
I’ve got a serious reading suggestion for you: NATO: The Most Dangerous Organisation on Earth. It’s a great dossier, I’ve read it and found it really interesting and conclusive, I recommend!
And lastly, you keep repeating and are being sarcastic towards people that are avoiding russian propaganda both here and in other threads. I’m sure it could be just a coincidence, but I don’t really believe in those kinds of coincidences.
I do this, because these communities of my fellow people are being strangled by western war propaganda. Like, actually all you get is western, state capitalist aligned media. You’ll have several accounts with the sole purpose to spread anti-Russia and anti-China sentiment and propaganda articles – never ever once stuff that seriously aims to understand the world, only ever to divide and conquer. Just check out accounts such as Hotznplotzn, Sepia, Randomname or Tardigrade, these are not normal users, they have a specific mission and are tolerated and protected by the admins and they will defend every dumb shit, as long as it’s against the western adversaries. Discussion that veers off the allowed path will get you ostracised, just look at the discussion between Wildmimic and LeoDalPozzo, where Wildmimic basically rage quit because they had nothing, zero, nada. Their indoctrinated misinformation came to it’s logical conclusion, by calling their opponent a Putin troll and tankie, not dissimilar to what you want to do, if we’re being honest.
I don’t do this because I’m pro anything or paid from anyone. It’s because I see how fenced in the breadth of opinions in these comms are and it’s making all of you into hawkish war lemmings, not into critical thinkers forming their own opinions. You eat what you are being fed and start to hate what the people that want war want you to hate, so it’s easier to mobilize you to the front, or at least make them help attacking those, that don’t want war.
Case in point: you fearing anything that’s not trotting the western path and deeming it “Russian propaganda”, forgetting, that Russia too is a sovereign state fighting in defense of their interests. To form a better understanding of the world, one would have to avoid only ever drinking from the same feeding tube. I’ve been there, myself. In the beginning I was cheering for Ukraine, but with the clearly despicable role of the West in regards to Palestine and the abhorrent role our media plays to create a completely alternative reality, I started to actually explore for myself. You should, too.
Not sure, if I’ll answer your comment about the leaders in palaces and North Korea in this other thread, as I’m not even sure you wanna hear it. Usually, people just want to vent, because they can’t stand the dissonance. Do you just vent?
Sadly, you‘ll hardly find the discussion you‘re longing for on here.
lemmy.world has an extreme western bias and is intolerant towards voices critical of the west.
Whatever narrative is the currently one preferred from the Zeitgeist, will get (partially pro-actively) amplified here. Arguing for the genocidal practices of Israel and excusing any kind of support from US and European states is still accepted. Being critical, doubtful or in opposition to the Ukraine war is frowned upon and will get you called names.
Repeating islamophobe, sinophobe and russophobe stereotypes is part of the etiquette.
You must have magical vision because none of those things are in this article or the comments here.
Yes, I’m a Magician, let me try summoning some of this stuff with this spell:
The Ukraine war is a proxy war between NATO and Russia with the sole purpose to weaken Russia as long as it needs for the Europeans to militarize and take up Russia on their own. The Ukrainian people will have to suffer as long as it takes, as several US and European politicians have acknowledged. This is the goal, so the US can focus on the indo-pacific and ultimately, together encircle China, the main enemy, as stated in the US National Security Strategy papers 2022 and 2026. But alas, accepting that US and EU are the problem for world peace would also mean dropping the nationalist rose glasses. Or actually reading this kind of stuff.
Now provide your reasonable reaction.
The only reasonable response to this is to ignore it.
You‘re proving my point.
You realize that Russia started the war, right? I agree that it is used by Western nations to get a shot at weakening Russia now that it’s going and that the US does not want peace but neither does Russia
Okay, cool. You also realize that war is an ultima ratio, right? You surely also agree, that history didn’t start on 24 February 2022 or February 2014. Man this feels like “history didn’t start on Oct 7th” all over again. Do you also agree, that the US and the EU did have geopolitical agendas and plans long before the Krim was annexed and do you also agree, that these plans where worked at and pushed for in the real world? And could these plans involve forcing Russia into a situation where they either have NATO military on their main border towards Western Europe or act to protect their sphere of influence?
Or – do you want to tell me, that US/EU only started acting after Russia involved itself physically in Ukraine?
I hope you get lots of upvotes!
Yes, it’s all NATO’s fault that Russia decided to invade Ukraine.
Fuck off.
First off, noone aquitted Russia of their guilt, so stfu with this leap of logic. Second, stop being so whiney, NATO isn’t your Daddy.
This is a war started by russia. Which russia continues. Yes, it’s a proxy war. That much is obvious. But the reason for it is russia. Not NATO trying to weaken russia. Unless you’re trying to claim that NATO started the war somehow. And if you claim that russia was forced to start the war because NATO was encroaching on their territory then you’re showing your true colors. Or you’re putting all of the blame on the prolonging on NATO. If your argument is that this is NATO’s fault because they’re supporting Ukraine then you’re showing you’re true colors again. And if you’re not, then what’s your argument?
Doomed if I do, doomed if I don’t. Now isn’t that a great situation.
Tell me, what it means to show my “true colors”? You mean when my own analysis and knowledge of this war comes to the conclusion, that yes, it’s straight up a NATO instigated war, then what? I’m a tankie? A putin troll? You do realize for one, that this is a childish reaction and also that it’s a widely accepted perspective, right? Yes, I identify the West as the main malevolent player, but that doesn’t mean I side with Putin or excuse the war or anything. That logical leap is just dishonest badmouthing. But that’s what you want to do, if you talk about “true colors”, right? Pure cowardice.
Have you read the Russia and China parts of the US NSS papers I cited earlier? What do you conclude from that?
Well, first of all, the US is not NATO. So those papers relate to the US more than they relate to NATO. Nobody here is defending US imperialism. We’re not talking about that, that’s just whataboutism which always appears when russia or china is criticized. No surprise there.
Second of all, how many wars has NATO started? Not intervened in. Started. And how many had russia? Pretty sure russia wins that competition. So yeah, I think it’s fair that russia’s neighbours ask for help to defend themselves when they look at that track record.
Third, “widely accepted” is debatable. And even if it’s true, since when does popularity decide what’s fact?
And lastly, you keep repeating and are being sarcastic towards people that are avoiding russian propaganda both here and in other threads. I’m sure it could be just a coincidence, but I don’t really believe in those kinds of coincidences.
And since you really don’t need to be a Communist or Putin-Troll to have a more sober perspective on this war, you could also just learn from people like John Mearsheimer, a so-called neorealist, western political scientist based in NY, who actually just started a YT-Channel of all things. And in his first proper video, he explains his perspective on the origins of the war in Ukraine.
Exclusively for you now, got a bit long, oopsie…
The US is the dictating force of NATO, without the US there would be no NATO, claiming otherwise is either cope or ignorance. Yes, there are factions in NATO, but ultimately NATO does what the US wants. The US is the world hegemon and their NATO friends mere junior partners. So naturally, US foreign policy is extremely relevant to NATO policy and if you’ve actually read the papers, which you haven’t 😝, you’d find out the following:
The US National Security Strategy (2022) says its top priority is “out-competing China and Constraining Russia” and that a key goal is that “Russia’s conventional military will have been weakened” (p.23, p.26). Which is exactly what they’re working on by letting Ukraine bleed out for their interests.
Let’s stop pretending that any of the western nation states are actually interested in the well-being of the Ukrainian (or their own) people. The US and several European states are actively deporting men that fled the war, only for them to be put in suicide squads at the front. These states do not give a shit about the people, these are wars in the interest of the capitalist class. And this is clearly not an idea originating from the invasion. But I’m not going to collect 20 more sources, that which I think you won’t read or even accept as valid. These comments already are quite time consuming.
By now, the US National Security Strategry (2026) shifts to “prioritize deterring China” and says NATO allies should take “primary responsibility for Europe’s conventional defense” (p.10, p.11). And we know, that defense is an euphemism for “defending the interests of capital, by using force”. Well, I do, not sure about you.
In practice this means, that the European NATO countries are supposed to fight the eastern flank by their own, hence the remilitarization and extreme anti-Russia propaganda, while the US can focus to build up militarily for a potential war with China.
Overall, it’s an offensive, belligerent strategy to remain the world’s sole super power by force. China with their economic strategy is taking over, the US is trying to stay on top. Part of that strategy is to isolate China by first disintegrating Russia. Some mad men even talk about the “decolonization of Russia”, which means to Balkanise the huge state into lots of smaller, easier to handle US puppet regimes.
And that’s just the official strategy, nothing covert, no shenanigans, just the immediate concrete outlook into their general future plans, supported by several scholars and analysts.
Ya, nobody needs to proclaim “I support US imperialism”, but most of you proactively do just that. To never actually deal with the realities of how and why the Empire acts on the world stage. Instead what always happens is to only circlejerk on the West’s enemies and attack any critique of their beloved nation states, which is in practise doing the deeds for US Imperialism. And that’s what’s happening on most .world and .feddit comms. A bubble, where even self-prescribed leftists, anarchists and pseudo-communists will defend the wars of the Empire. It’s sickening.
No, not a popularity contest, but I call to realize that there’s thinking people outside of the Western sphere of influence. It’s nice that it’s “debatable” in Western circles, but that’s not the reality world wide over and us here being free to debate it in the west doesn’t change the dynamics, because it’s not our wars, it’s the wars of the capitalist class, we are the human material they use to fight them.
This isn’t a competition on who started how many wars. I also don’t know why you feel the need to construct your demand in such a specific way. When NATO “intervened” in Bosnia, they actually started an imperial war out of geopolitical strategic interests. Just because you’re getting sold a different story, doesn’t make it a reality. Every NATO operation is one too many.
I’ve got a serious reading suggestion for you: NATO: The Most Dangerous Organisation on Earth. It’s a great dossier, I’ve read it and found it really interesting and conclusive, I recommend!
I do this, because these communities of my fellow people are being strangled by western war propaganda. Like, actually all you get is western,
statecapitalist aligned media. You’ll have several accounts with the sole purpose to spread anti-Russia and anti-China sentiment and propaganda articles – never ever once stuff that seriously aims to understand the world, only ever to divide and conquer. Just check out accounts such as Hotznplotzn, Sepia, Randomname or Tardigrade, these are not normal users, they have a specific mission and are tolerated and protected by the admins and they will defend every dumb shit, as long as it’s against the western adversaries. Discussion that veers off the allowed path will get you ostracised, just look at the discussion between Wildmimic and LeoDalPozzo, where Wildmimic basically rage quit because they had nothing, zero, nada. Their indoctrinated misinformation came to it’s logical conclusion, by calling their opponent a Putin troll and tankie, not dissimilar to what you want to do, if we’re being honest.I don’t do this because I’m pro anything or paid from anyone. It’s because I see how fenced in the breadth of opinions in these comms are and it’s making all of you into hawkish war lemmings, not into critical thinkers forming their own opinions. You eat what you are being fed and start to hate what the people that want war want you to hate, so it’s easier to mobilize you to the front, or at least make them help attacking those, that don’t want war.
Case in point: you fearing anything that’s not trotting the western path and deeming it “Russian propaganda”, forgetting, that Russia too is a sovereign state fighting in defense of their interests. To form a better understanding of the world, one would have to avoid only ever drinking from the same feeding tube. I’ve been there, myself. In the beginning I was cheering for Ukraine, but with the clearly despicable role of the West in regards to Palestine and the abhorrent role our media plays to create a completely alternative reality, I started to actually explore for myself. You should, too.
Not sure, if I’ll answer your comment about the leaders in palaces and North Korea in this other thread, as I’m not even sure you wanna hear it. Usually, people just want to vent, because they can’t stand the dissonance. Do you just vent?