ikiru

If that’s all you took away, you are the braindead one.

Morality sucks. It often leads people to the wrong conclusions. It’s not about moral superiority. It’s about stopping fascism and millions of deaths.

I’ll agree with you there, morality does suck. But you haven’t stopped fascism by voting for Biden, you’ve supported it.

The Azov Brigade has been denazified.

Sure.

I have read the constitution. Appointing Supreme Court justices is in fact all he can do in regards to the Supreme Court. The Republicans waited 50 years to take our freedoms away. Now we may very well have to spend 50 years voting to get them back. This is why elections matter.

Here is a transcript. You’ll want article two, section two, paragraph two.

Great, I’ve read it as well. So then how does Biden protect us from Christofascism when they literally already govern us for irrevocable life terms? How has fascism been prevented by voting for Biden? How are we not already in fascism which Biden and other Democrats have done nothing to prevent regardless of whether one voted for them or not? And you’re delusional if you think fascists will respect these weak ass institutions, that did nothing to stop them in the first place, once they are magically defeated using the same institutions which they will either control or destroy. I agree that fascism taking over the US is an existential threat to the world, and Biden did nothing about it but tell us to wait longer and vote again. Your vote didn’t stop fascism.

Biden doesn’t support the fascist right wing of Israel. It’s hard for any world leader to single out the political parties of another country. World leaders have little recourse but to interface with other world leaders. We are reaching a point where we are going to have to start denouncing countries for putting fascists in power. This of course goes against decades of foreign policy of sticking with your allies no matter what. But we are going to have to because fascist dictatorships are incentivized to betray democracies.

He’s been a friend and suporter of Netanyahu for over 40 years, almost half a century; he has continued funding, arming, and militarily as well as politically defending Israel while they commit genocide, but somehow none of that doesn’t make him a fascist supporter yet? Oh, but I didn’t know he was forced to be friendly with fascists. He has little recourse but to deal with fascist genociders, what a shame. Yet he has full power to not recognize or deal with states like Cuba, Venezuela, North Korea, and so on. Weird how that works. It’s almost as if he wants to be on friendly terms with the far Right in Israel for some reason, but I guess I just don’t understand the high levels of geopolitics.

Right. Because I am [safer]. And so is everyone else.

Yeah, those Palestinian children are much safer in the ground surrounded by their families. You have supported fascism, not everyone is safer because of it. Fascists are safer, though, there’s that at least.

Okay??? Nobody here is saying that, so this is pure strawman

I don’t blame you if you haven’t read all the replies I got here because they are all inane, maniacal bloodthirsty American fascist babbling and a complete waste of time but basically everyone has said voting for Biden was necessary to save the country, democracy, stop worse genocide, protect the world, so on and so forth because Trump would destroy everything. Even you are implying it in the next part which I quote. So, no, it’s not an imagined strawman and people are actually saying that here.

Except it’s not… Electing a candidate doesn’t automatically make people responsible for every action that candidate takes once they’re in office. And, once again, it was either Biden or Trump. We picked the best option we had.

Voting for and electing a candidate gives them a mandate. That’s literally how elections work and their purpose. You are literally responsible for putting that person in power and for what they do with that power because you helped put them there. And anyone voting for Biden again after everything that is happening only solidifies their position as a fascist supporter.

If you’re forced to choose between a pile of shit and a pile of shit with febreeze, you’re gonna pick the latter option. Doesn’t mean you’re happy with it, and it doesn’t suddenly make you responsible when the febreeze runs out and the shit starts to stink.

It doesn’t seem like you love this country very much. You describe it in such a pessimistic way. Forced to choose between shit you’re not happy with that will support or commit genocide no matter what, huh? Does that sound like a functional democracy to you? Fact is that everyone is effected by the President but no one is forced to vote and there are other things people can do to try to build an alternative. You chose to vote to just shovel pleasant smelling shit in your mouth. Why do you think it’s worth shoveling shit in your mouth for a system you describe as forcing you to choose between such options?

Speaking of shit, stop diving in your ass to find some. You’re spewing enough already.

My bad, I thought you’d appreciate it. You’re the one here who loves to have nice smelling shit in their mouth, not me.

All right, but this doesn’t make you any different from Trump supporters that Democrats love to accuse of (mostly correctly) being fascists.

The problem with you feeling like this critique makes you defensive and want to just go for the easy option is that there is always another option that you could do but it seems like it’s impossible for it to dawn upon you people. It’s either genocide or worse genocide. No other choice. But it’s also totally a functioning democracy worth defending, unlike those other bloodthirsty authoritarian regimes.

If you can’t figure out another option or don’t support it or think it’s impossible because it’s difficult so might as well not do it, then continue doing as you are but, yes, be aware there is blood on your hands and you are acting as a fascist supporter at best.

ok

I mean, I do feel safer. You should too. I voted for Biden to stop the fascist take over. I didn’t fully realize how much of a danger it was until Jan 6th. But it’s become crystal clear to me since.

I don’t feel safer because I’ve seen the slide towards fascism way before Trump and I know it will continue towards fascism because this slide includes the support and enabling of Democrats. There is no getting off this train by just electing Biden or the next assless Democrat who will just watch as fascists consolidate power.

A democracy that is against genocide is better than a fascist dictatorship that actively pursues genocide at home and abroad. How is that even a question?

It’s really telling to me you still consider this a democracy that is against genocide. The President is literally funding and arming a genocide that is happening right now. And when the choice is between a President who supports genocide or a President who supports worse genocide, how is that not already a dictatorship? How is that a functioning democracy? That is why it is even a question.

Trump is a fascist and fascist enabler. Biden is not.

You’re delusional if you are not even willing to admit to yourself you voted for a fascist enabler because you wanted to feel safer.

It’s a two party system. Republicans win with low voter turn out. By not voting for Biden you are helping Trump. It’s just math. You can’t guilt people into supporting a fascist like Trump.

That’s a functional democracy worth defending at the cost of supporting genocide to you?

I’m not even going to address your either blatant lie or severe historical amnesia about Democratic evangelism, despite the fact you are still proving my point by arguing that choosing Biden to Trump was the morally superior choice and that not voting for Biden ipso facto makes you a Trump supporter (which is morally inferior).

Biden kept us in NATO and is supporting Ukraine.

Is this the same Ukraine where he sends arms and money without demanding that said arms and money do not go towards Nazi regiments such as Azov? Supporting one fascist group which trains US-born fascists against another fascist group has prevented fascism from spreading?

Biden appointed a progress supreme court judge, which is all he can do until more supreme court judges die of old age.

Are you sure that’s all he could do? So he’s powerless to protect us from Christofascists in power? We just have to wait it out?

Biden has gotten the current events in the Israel-Palestine conflict wrong, but that does not make him a fascist enabler or a fascist. Biden wanted Israel to defend itself from Hamas and minimize civilian casualties. He didn’t tell Israel to commit war crimes.

Is Biden’s “unwavering support” for Israel’s Right-wing and genocidal fascist Netanyahu not fascist-enabling? What then is the difference between being “wrong” by funding and arming Israel and continuing to defend them politically, and being a “fascist enabler”?

I feel safer knowing he isn’t in the White House, instructing Israel to commit war crimes. The difference is millions of lives.

Yeah, the difference is you feel safer.

Whataboutism.

the technique or practice of responding to an accusation or difficult question by … raising a different issue.

Who raised the issue of Trump or the Republican Party when I discussed Biden?

We live in a democracy with a two party system.

Do you still feel it is a democracy worth defending by approving genocide when the choice is a fascist-enabler and a fascist?

No Trump would be worse. He was the one who moved our embassy to Israel. He is the one who is going to destabilize the situation further. Half of the Democratic party wants a ceasefire. Republicans want unconditional support for Israel. Have you ever watched or read fox news? The difference between the parties becomes quite clear, very quickly.

Whataboutism. It’s obnoxious when it isn’t being used against your opponents, right?

You can’t guilt someone into enabling fascists. It doesn’t work. Think about all the people the Republicans are going to get killed. It’s not equivalent.

I haven’t supported any fascists. The Democratic Party, on the other hand, was the one who guilted you into enabling fascists. Netanyahu has gone mask-off fascist and the Democratic Party guilted you and others into voting for Biden who has been enabling Netanyahu for decades, and continues to do so now. How many people have to be murdered for you to stop supporting Biden? Do you feel any guilt or shame for voting to empower Biden who shipped weapons and sent money to Israel to bomb children and their families?

Ah, yes, it’s only my imagination and projection that Democrats were drunk with feelings of moral superiority in the last two elections.

What has Biden done to prevent fascism spreading domestically and abroad? How has Biden stopped the death squads of the IDF killing Muslims right now? When has Biden protected Americans from the Christofascist Supreme Court? How is it worth voting to support genocide to protect a so-called ‘democracy’ when the choice, according to you, is a fascist-enabler and a fascist? When is it worth families being murdered to make you feel safe?

Apologies but you are the one in the echo chamber. Our path is inevitable.

Rather, it was supporters of Biden trying to guilt trip everyone into voting for him and now we see the consequence of it. You either voted or are defending those who voted for genocide, I haven’t done either. Next time I hope no one supporting Biden will feel morally superior to those who do not feel they can willingly support this kind of policy which only enables the freefall toward fascism both domestically and abroad.

If people like you feel comfortable with your choice in voluntarily voting for genocide-lite and will vote for it again, then I am just simply reminding you of the blood on your privileged hands. Deep down you know it is true.

More whataboutism. Trump isn’t the President overseeing and providing cover for the genocide right now and Biden hasn’t helped in undoing neither the inhumane incarceration system nor the camps (‘migrant detention centers’) already underway in the US.

But I asked you what could be worse than genocide, and you responded by saying genocide. So, nothing can be worse than genocide? Great, then we are well on our way.

Even if it isn’t completed now, Biden has been more than helpful to the far Right colonizers in Israel by enabling this and setting precedent for whenever they wish to continue. Democrat or Republican, it doesn’t matter, Israel has validity now to continue genocide. And Democrat or Republican, it doesn’t matter, voters like you have spoken—support is unconditional, let genocide continue.

Where do you draw your line? How many murdered Palestinian families do you find acceptable?

So how many murdered Palestinians are an acceptable amount for you?

On the contrary, you are displaying the tremendous privilege of living in the imperial core by being able to choose between “‘genocide’ and ‘genocide even more, and even more local genocide’” and justify literally voluntarily voting to choose genocide in order to make yourself feel more comfortable within the imperial core.

True fascism taking power in the US means that I and the people around me will be murdered. But I don’t feel the ethical apathy to be able to coldly prefer international genocide of others to keep myself safe at home all the while pretending like I saved the freedom for the entire world as children and whole families are being murdered. Biden is not the progressive savior all of you claimed he was, now at least you admit you chose “genocide”—which I do, and history will, judge harshly.

If you choose to vote for him again after this, you will consciously approve of genocide and be all the more guilty.

How could it be worse than genocide for Palestinians?

No, I’m not a Leninist.

And, no, I don’t think it would be any better under Trump but I’m not lying to myself that voting for Biden somehow saved democracy and thus the world. Genocide Joe and Friends has been a spineless shit domestically which has only enabled the Far Right in the US and he just showed where he stands internationally, which is no different from the Far Right. Just want to remind people this is what they voted for when they chose to rabidly support Biden.

Yeah, it could be worse for those maimed Palestinian kids. They could be dead, like those other Palestinian kids. Great trade.

You got what you voted for then. A whopping 4-hour daily ceasefire.

Thanks for voting!

You’re in denial.

But you voted for the guy who has been friends, worked with, and politically supported a Right-wing, ethnonationalist for over 40 years.