Four out of five Canadians say they have no confidence in the U.S. under President Donald Trump’s leadership, with existing tensions expected to be exacerbated by latest tariffs
I ask myself for quite some time now: where are Americas young people? In most countries, if something goes as wrong as in America at the moment, the first who respond with protests are the students. Just check out India. But in the US there are only a few local protest about the middle east. No mass protests, not even discussions as far as I can tell. Why is that?
America is an experiment in how far you can push individualism. Collective action, unions and the like are suppressed compared to other countries. They’ll have to relearn that individual responsibility has limits and collective action is still important.
They took to the streets when their wealth was endangered though. So there are reasons to get Americans to protest. The rest of the world simply isn’t one of them.
I think there are two main reasons. The first is that things simply haven’t gotten bad enough. It’s true, there is a health care crisis killing tens of thousands a year, rampant human rights violations in ICE concentration camps, brazen corruption in the administration, etc. But for most of the uneducated and uninformed middle class, these things don’t directly affect their daily lives.
The second reason is that the mass indoctrination campaign concerning American exceptionalism has been immensely successful. So while many Americans agree some things could be improved, they are unsure of what those things are because they also still believe the US is one of the best places in the world to live, even as the US has steadily tumbled down the quality-of-life rankings and now arguably ranks below the likes of Estonia and Slovenia. The belief in exceptionalism has fostered a rather meek and servile attitude towards the government.
And that’s why American exceptionalism and any other kind of national exceptionalism needs to die
It will take a economic depression, mass unemployment, civil unrest, oil prices going to the moon, civil war, hyperinflation and mass famine to kill American exceptionalism
The focus on petrol prices and inflation are, to me, also curious aspects of American culture.
For one, one of the major problems in the US economy is that petrol prices are too low. In general, to optimize productivity one should aim to subsidize those activities that generate positive externalities, and tax those that generate negative externalities. The use of fossil fuels - a heavily polluting activity - should then be adequately taxed. No top-tier economy has petrol prices as low as in the US, they are closer to 10 USD a gallon (in freedom units). The undertaxation of fossil fuels has also led to greater sensitivity to price fluctuations on the global markets.
Inflation is a curious fixation since the US, unlike many other countries, never experienced hyperinflation. So why the obsession? I suspect one factor might be that the US has few collective wage negotiations, whereas here inflation is more or less automatically priced into wages. What then happens is that workers who stay in their job have their wages steadily eroded (i.e., their employer simply pays them a lower real wage over time), but then if they switch jobs, they attribute the wage increase to their career advancement rather than inflation, which increases the price of labour just as it does the price of goods (if due to money losing value).
theres also enough wage-wise to not protest, plus still food for even the poorest, and social programs, aka welfare. pay even working a min wage is better than most places in the world.
Okay, “most” of the world, sure, but that is not a very high bar. Yes, Americans are much better off than people in the Central African Republic, Myanmar or Venezuela.
You prove my point. In fact, US people working a minimum wage job have a much lower net income (including transfers) than those living on the lowest possible unemployment benefits in top-tier economies, who by the way also have access to adequate health care, top-tier education (without bullshit class-based admission procedures or segregation), much better public transport, etc.
its a double edged sword. they went to hard and killed 2 citizens(white people) people in jan and feb, the MSM had since had to stop reporting on ice activity to stop the inciting of more protests, and it worked, thats why the conservative bumpkins think its not happening enough.
After the Civil rights and anti-Vietnam protests of the 60s and 70s, public policy changed to quietly hoover up all of the hippies via the drug war and cut funding for universities and colleges. That, plus McCarthyism and the oil shortage lead to Boomers being one of the most conservative generations in American history. They, along with the government, pushed this idea of freedom through self-reliance and hard work. Those were always the undercurrent of America’s politics, but now there were basically no dissenting voices (cause they were all in jail for possession or for being a commie).
The next generations of leftist voices were crushed by the heel of capitalism. Since college and university cost more, individuals participating either needed to already have money (thus be more likely to swallow the “individual effort” freedom narrative) or needed to take out loans (thus needed to keep their mouth shut, since student loans are “forever loans” that can’t be forgiven via bankruptcy and they needed employment to pay them back). High school and lower education was stripped of “commie” talking points, meaning the sole narrative taught to young people before college was “America is the best cause of our freedom” nonsense. Unions were taken during this time with “right to work” laws, handing more unchecked power to corporations.
Right now in America, there’s a resurgence of leftist voices, but these are students with no masters. We have to rebuild the organizations to support these efforts, but that takes time. In the interim, you’ll see mass protests break out from time to time when things get bad, but our lack of generational knowledge on how to utilize these efforts means they’ll come and go fairly quickly as individuals are unsure of what comes next. And before those protests can solidify around a single message or platform, mass media will come in to give them a shit one, or twist the actual one to lose public support. That’s why the George Floyd protests were big and loud, but didn’t really drive any consistent goals. The “defund” narrative was constructed around the movement before it could actually decide that was its goal, and that was too an extreme for position for the average American in that moment (think the Overton shifted on that, now), killing the momentum the movement was gaining.
Another thing is that the gov’t targets leaders of these movements and finds a way to put them in jail or kill them. Meaning being the face of the movement is basically guaranteed to get you killed or silenced. So none of these modern protests have true leaders (not single strong men, mind, but actual decision making bodies in general), making it hard to quickly organize messaging and actions. Putting them even more flat-footed for when the next moment arises.
Also, any popular protest in the US that doesn’t include rioting gets basically no air time. The George Floyd protests went on for months after the news stopped covering them. Minneapolis’ response to operation metro surge outlasted the operation, but you don’t hear about it being celebrated.
Yeah, in the US, the protestors are mostly older people. I think maybe they’re too anxious and don’t want to jeopardize their future careers? Maybe they saw the concerted effort to ruin pro-Palestine protestor’s lives? Most companies do background checks (I’ve had to get a background check to work at Burger King), and even a single arrest on your record is enough to have you automatically filtered out. Maybe they saw that the BLM protests didn’t really cause the government to change much. Idk. It is weird though.
And maybe most importantly, they’re too distracted to be politically motivated at all. They have ephemeral anger and reactions that fizzle out as soon as they form. The next scandal, the next season on Netflix, the next meme. They aren’t given time to think enough to care. By design.
Tbh here in india as well we all feel the same way. We have been fucked since all the way back in 2014 and even before that tbh but lets not get into that. And idk about the US but a lot of people here do not protest because most people literally work on daily wages and are shit scared of police brutality and losing their jobs. A single FIR can ruin your life even if it is a fake one. And the “government”(regime) is very good at dishing out polarizing narratives with its humongous IT cell that constantly shifts blame to minorities such as muslims, christians and lower caste Hindus, and immigrants from neighboring states.
The recent protest were a result a lot of things going right. As paper leaks are a pan India issue and effected everyone from lower to upper caste and of every religion. The amount of frustration simply outpaced any government narratives. As well as a very well organized movement by educated people and a very high profile engineer taking part in the protest. It is still a very hopeful thing overall. But thousands still die from basic issues like contaminated ground water, toxic air, a power grid incapable of handling modern 45C + summers (ACs are still a luxury here the average person and classroom does not have). Endless concrete hell where you can just die by a brick falling on you from a construction site in the middle of a busy road. Bridges just randomly collapsing and what not. And there are zero protests anywhere. Even if there are, all the media is owned by the government and you do not see it enough for it to get large enough.
Even rn they r actively arresting students from protests for no reasons at all and used violence against them back in July 20 to again just sow enough fear where people simply accept being miserable than dealing with the state.
As long as people believe risking their current way of life is not a good trade off there simply can not be a mass protest movement. The paper leak issue worked coz it already has about 1% of chance of you making it and if even that is bought by money, students have literally nothing as there are no mid level industrial jobs here. You are either working an office MNC/Doctoral job or are working in a field under disguised unemployment or washing dishes. Hence we got so many people out.
One of my professors was actively involved during the civil rights era and her words have really stuck with me. She said, speaking directly to our class, if you kids were in the civil rights era you wouldn’t last a second. I fear she was completely correct.
If that’s true then it’s the fault of the generation that raised them. Saying that as a ~40 year old.
I also wonder who the hell she was looking at when she said that, because did she sleep through the campus encampments in protest of the Gaza genocide that got violently cracked down on? Does she think her generation came back to college to do that?
“Yet here you are with a secure job, maybe even tenure, assets, established support networks, and a platform, doing fuck all about it while expecting us to flush our education down the toilet while still saddled with debt during the worst economy in decades, to take all the risk of starting a revolution for you.”
Why is that? Because you’re completely in the dark. Either your media don’t report, you don’t bother to research, you’re an idiot, or all 3.
When 8 million Americans protest nationwide in our largest ever protest, and you completely ignore it, I ask myself for quite some time: where is our international solidarity partners? All they do is spread falsehoods about lack of protest here while looking down on us.
Jesus dude, why so hostile? There’s nothing inherently wrong with not knowing enough about something.
where is our international solidarity partners?
Solidarity with the nation currently being aggressive toward various instances of its “allied” countries? I can’t see how it’s reasonable to expect any one citizen of those countries to give any amount of support to the nation currently threatening their home’s stability. There’s no practical reason to do anything more than reduce its interactions with said country for the sake of its own citizens’ livelihoods. Global relations are a matter of give and take, and right now all the US is doing is taking.
I ask myself for quite some time now: where are Americas young people? In most countries, if something goes as wrong as in America at the moment, the first who respond with protests are the students. Just check out India. But in the US there are only a few local protest about the middle east. No mass protests, not even discussions as far as I can tell. Why is that?
America is an experiment in how far you can push individualism. Collective action, unions and the like are suppressed compared to other countries. They’ll have to relearn that individual responsibility has limits and collective action is still important.
They took to the streets when their wealth was endangered though. So there are reasons to get Americans to protest. The rest of the world simply isn’t one of them.
I think there are two main reasons. The first is that things simply haven’t gotten bad enough. It’s true, there is a health care crisis killing tens of thousands a year, rampant human rights violations in ICE concentration camps, brazen corruption in the administration, etc. But for most of the uneducated and uninformed middle class, these things don’t directly affect their daily lives.
The second reason is that the mass indoctrination campaign concerning American exceptionalism has been immensely successful. So while many Americans agree some things could be improved, they are unsure of what those things are because they also still believe the US is one of the best places in the world to live, even as the US has steadily tumbled down the quality-of-life rankings and now arguably ranks below the likes of Estonia and Slovenia. The belief in exceptionalism has fostered a rather meek and servile attitude towards the government.
And that’s why American exceptionalism and any other kind of national exceptionalism needs to die
It will take a economic depression, mass unemployment, civil unrest, oil prices going to the moon, civil war, hyperinflation and mass famine to kill American exceptionalism
The focus on petrol prices and inflation are, to me, also curious aspects of American culture.
For one, one of the major problems in the US economy is that petrol prices are too low. In general, to optimize productivity one should aim to subsidize those activities that generate positive externalities, and tax those that generate negative externalities. The use of fossil fuels - a heavily polluting activity - should then be adequately taxed. No top-tier economy has petrol prices as low as in the US, they are closer to 10 USD a gallon (in freedom units). The undertaxation of fossil fuels has also led to greater sensitivity to price fluctuations on the global markets.
Inflation is a curious fixation since the US, unlike many other countries, never experienced hyperinflation. So why the obsession? I suspect one factor might be that the US has few collective wage negotiations, whereas here inflation is more or less automatically priced into wages. What then happens is that workers who stay in their job have their wages steadily eroded (i.e., their employer simply pays them a lower real wage over time), but then if they switch jobs, they attribute the wage increase to their career advancement rather than inflation, which increases the price of labour just as it does the price of goods (if due to money losing value).
theres also enough wage-wise to not protest, plus still food for even the poorest, and social programs, aka welfare. pay even working a min wage is better than most places in the world.
Okay, “most” of the world, sure, but that is not a very high bar. Yes, Americans are much better off than people in the Central African Republic, Myanmar or Venezuela.
You prove my point. In fact, US people working a minimum wage job have a much lower net income (including transfers) than those living on the lowest possible unemployment benefits in top-tier economies, who by the way also have access to adequate health care, top-tier education (without bullshit class-based admission procedures or segregation), much better public transport, etc.
heaps if people are upset he’s not going hard enough with ICE
its a double edged sword. they went to hard and killed 2 citizens(white people) people in jan and feb, the MSM had since had to stop reporting on ice activity to stop the inciting of more protests, and it worked, thats why the conservative bumpkins think its not happening enough.
tens of thousands a year is just a rounding error in statesia.
After the Civil rights and anti-Vietnam protests of the 60s and 70s, public policy changed to quietly hoover up all of the hippies via the drug war and cut funding for universities and colleges. That, plus McCarthyism and the oil shortage lead to Boomers being one of the most conservative generations in American history. They, along with the government, pushed this idea of freedom through self-reliance and hard work. Those were always the undercurrent of America’s politics, but now there were basically no dissenting voices (cause they were all in jail for possession or for being a commie).
The next generations of leftist voices were crushed by the heel of capitalism. Since college and university cost more, individuals participating either needed to already have money (thus be more likely to swallow the “individual effort” freedom narrative) or needed to take out loans (thus needed to keep their mouth shut, since student loans are “forever loans” that can’t be forgiven via bankruptcy and they needed employment to pay them back). High school and lower education was stripped of “commie” talking points, meaning the sole narrative taught to young people before college was “America is the best cause of our freedom” nonsense. Unions were taken during this time with “right to work” laws, handing more unchecked power to corporations.
Right now in America, there’s a resurgence of leftist voices, but these are students with no masters. We have to rebuild the organizations to support these efforts, but that takes time. In the interim, you’ll see mass protests break out from time to time when things get bad, but our lack of generational knowledge on how to utilize these efforts means they’ll come and go fairly quickly as individuals are unsure of what comes next. And before those protests can solidify around a single message or platform, mass media will come in to give them a shit one, or twist the actual one to lose public support. That’s why the George Floyd protests were big and loud, but didn’t really drive any consistent goals. The “defund” narrative was constructed around the movement before it could actually decide that was its goal, and that was too an extreme for position for the average American in that moment (think the Overton shifted on that, now), killing the momentum the movement was gaining.
Another thing is that the gov’t targets leaders of these movements and finds a way to put them in jail or kill them. Meaning being the face of the movement is basically guaranteed to get you killed or silenced. So none of these modern protests have true leaders (not single strong men, mind, but actual decision making bodies in general), making it hard to quickly organize messaging and actions. Putting them even more flat-footed for when the next moment arises.
Also, any popular protest in the US that doesn’t include rioting gets basically no air time. The George Floyd protests went on for months after the news stopped covering them. Minneapolis’ response to operation metro surge outlasted the operation, but you don’t hear about it being celebrated.
Don’t come in here with a rational examination of material conditions in America! We’re here to be Mad at the Lazy Americans!
Yeah, in the US, the protestors are mostly older people. I think maybe they’re too anxious and don’t want to jeopardize their future careers? Maybe they saw the concerted effort to ruin pro-Palestine protestor’s lives? Most companies do background checks (I’ve had to get a background check to work at Burger King), and even a single arrest on your record is enough to have you automatically filtered out. Maybe they saw that the BLM protests didn’t really cause the government to change much. Idk. It is weird though.
it was actually occupy wallstreet, they saw there wasnt much going on, so nothing must be bad.
And maybe most importantly, they’re too distracted to be politically motivated at all. They have ephemeral anger and reactions that fizzle out as soon as they form. The next scandal, the next season on Netflix, the next meme. They aren’t given time to think enough to care. By design.
Tbh here in india as well we all feel the same way. We have been fucked since all the way back in 2014 and even before that tbh but lets not get into that. And idk about the US but a lot of people here do not protest because most people literally work on daily wages and are shit scared of police brutality and losing their jobs. A single FIR can ruin your life even if it is a fake one. And the “government”(regime) is very good at dishing out polarizing narratives with its humongous IT cell that constantly shifts blame to minorities such as muslims, christians and lower caste Hindus, and immigrants from neighboring states.
The recent protest were a result a lot of things going right. As paper leaks are a pan India issue and effected everyone from lower to upper caste and of every religion. The amount of frustration simply outpaced any government narratives. As well as a very well organized movement by educated people and a very high profile engineer taking part in the protest. It is still a very hopeful thing overall. But thousands still die from basic issues like contaminated ground water, toxic air, a power grid incapable of handling modern 45C + summers (ACs are still a luxury here the average person and classroom does not have). Endless concrete hell where you can just die by a brick falling on you from a construction site in the middle of a busy road. Bridges just randomly collapsing and what not. And there are zero protests anywhere. Even if there are, all the media is owned by the government and you do not see it enough for it to get large enough.
Even rn they r actively arresting students from protests for no reasons at all and used violence against them back in July 20 to again just sow enough fear where people simply accept being miserable than dealing with the state.
As long as people believe risking their current way of life is not a good trade off there simply can not be a mass protest movement. The paper leak issue worked coz it already has about 1% of chance of you making it and if even that is bought by money, students have literally nothing as there are no mid level industrial jobs here. You are either working an office MNC/Doctoral job or are working in a field under disguised unemployment or washing dishes. Hence we got so many people out.
One of my professors was actively involved during the civil rights era and her words have really stuck with me. She said, speaking directly to our class, if you kids were in the civil rights era you wouldn’t last a second. I fear she was completely correct.
If that’s true then it’s the fault of the generation that raised them. Saying that as a ~40 year old.
I also wonder who the hell she was looking at when she said that, because did she sleep through the campus encampments in protest of the Gaza genocide that got violently cracked down on? Does she think her generation came back to college to do that?
“Yet here you are with a secure job, maybe even tenure, assets, established support networks, and a platform, doing fuck all about it while expecting us to flush our education down the toilet while still saddled with debt during the worst economy in decades, to take all the risk of starting a revolution for you.”
Their infrastructure prevents protest
Why is that? Because you’re completely in the dark. Either your media don’t report, you don’t bother to research, you’re an idiot, or all 3.
When 8 million Americans protest nationwide in our largest ever protest, and you completely ignore it, I ask myself for quite some time: where is our international solidarity partners? All they do is spread falsehoods about lack of protest here while looking down on us.
Jesus dude, why so hostile? There’s nothing inherently wrong with not knowing enough about something.
Solidarity with the nation currently being aggressive toward various instances of its “allied” countries? I can’t see how it’s reasonable to expect any one citizen of those countries to give any amount of support to the nation currently threatening their home’s stability. There’s no practical reason to do anything more than reduce its interactions with said country for the sake of its own citizens’ livelihoods. Global relations are a matter of give and take, and right now all the US is doing is taking.