Donald Trump’s bruising return to the White House has sent many longtime foreign allies scrambling to get their distance, and according to a new piece from The Atlantic, that distance will last long after Trump is gone.
Trump’s second term as president has been marked by notable and widespread disrespect toward nations once seen as close U.S. allies. Between his attempts to level massive tariffs against nearly every nation in the world and his frequent breaches of diplomatic norms, Trump has created a hostile global environment in which allies no longer feel safe trusting in the stability of the U.S.
In a new piece for The Atlantic on Tuesday, staff writer Vivian Salama argued that this new dynamic, in which the nations of the world are working to establish a safe distance from the U.S., is bound to become the new normal for years to come, even after Trump leaves office and is potentially replaced by a more traditional, dependable administration.
Because it’s not trump.
The whole damned US framework facilitated this little shitheel. And its shown you are not to be trusted, and unfit to operate on an international stage
It’s like this. No shade to Americans, but you guys can do this shit in any four year period. You elected him TWICE.
No hard feelings, but you’re on your own.
IDK where you are typing this from, but far-right populism is surging in the EU and some other parts of the world.
In other words, you aren’t wrong, but take the situation more as a warning for yourself. Take a hard look in your own back yard, with wide eyes.
I’m in Australia, and yes, far right idiocy happens here too. But in this country our electoral system keeps the wackos contained. We have compulsory preferential voting. Elections here are decided by the middle, not the extremities.
That’s what we thought too…
Our two electoral systems couldn’t be more different. For a start in ours the politicians aren’t allowed to draw electoral boundaries.
We all thought our constitution had some pretty good checks and balances too. But boy…money talks
No constitution can protect you from voting for an absolute buffoon.
The constitution is a piece of paper. It’s the ones in power that enforce it, and you gave all the power to a clown.
In our case, it’s not the constitution. It’s a result of long running electoral reform. in essence, political parties nor politicians can fuck with the electoral system nor boundaries. It’s run by an independent commission. Parties are welcome to make a submission suggesting change, evenake a case for change, but if it doesn’t match the set criteria, they get shut down. Unlike your states who can redraw boundaries to pick their voters.
Those mostly turned out to just be gentleman’s agreements. As an Americsn, it seems Australia and other countries may have actually put these things into laws with consequences. Sounds nice
Ah, the cockiness.
US also has laws and this administration simply ignores, because there’s no one to enforce them. The reason for it is that people who could enforce them are either on board with the new world order or are blackmailed, the ones that would stop it were purged from the government during DOGE stage (they likely also found more blackmail material, through use of LLM).
It is crazy what can be done with help of foreign governments and the richest people on earth.
They are interested in changing the world not just the US, seems like biggest attention right now is put on Germany and France, but this effort is placed everywhere.
People born in a democracy take it for granted as if this is something inevitable, when in reality democracy is very fragile and requires constant work to blossom.
Thinking “we are safe” is how it happened in US, Hungary, Poland, Turkey. And historically Weimar Republic was a democracy until Hitler took over.
That’s a positive, but IMO the fundamental issue is engagement-driven social media stoking extremist populism. If voters radicalize, especially in one direction, no voting system will protect you from that.
We… well, I was gonna was we realized it too late in the US, but we never really figured it out, and now we never will.
You folks need to neuter US social media as fast as you can. Cut the undersea cables, if you have to.
But in this country our electoral system keeps the wackos contained.
For now, but far right ideology shouldn’t be contained, it should be quashed. The US is a great example of what happens when it isn’t.
Also, the rise in far right ideologies across multiple countries should be a global concern. If one country under fascist control can cause significant damage to Australia imagine the effect of 4 or 5 scattered across the world.
But in this country our electoral system keeps the wackos contained
does it ? As an Australian i’d call this take woefully misguided. We elect an endless litany of wackos and nut jobs.
For example, many pundits are suggesting an ONP electoral win and we have our wackos in Government including the LNP.
Remember those asshats holding a lump of coal and laughing about the outcome for the Pacific Islands? we elected one of them as Prime Minister, the same one that then shit in France’s pocket, like Trump is doing to his “friends”
Our talk on immigration is as tough as the US BUT its across ALP, LNO and ONP so most voters are obviously Ok with it, we place refugees in off shore detention centres, many commiting suicide, like the much maligned Alligator Alcatraz in the US. The ALP has literally said they are going to hunt down visa overstayers, like ICE do in the US now. Our phones can be searched anywhere, Americans are in horror about phone searched at the border that’s just a small sample.
the only difference is the size of the stage, ours is insignificant in the world and no one pays any attention, (including apparently Australians) to our endless hate and stupidity.
As to our electoral system, calling bullshit on that, the US has primaries where they vote on candidates and have some say, we have precisely zero choice in that respect. The US has the state base electoral college, that supposed to be there stop big states bullying smaller states by having more representatives ie more people = more votes (aka democracy), we have something similar with our senate having the same number of senators for each state, Tassie (with less population then the the Gold Coast) having the same number of senators as NSW. They do have issues over donor contributions (PACs etc) but so do we, who do you think is bank rolling the ONP? The Greens have long warned of this (and climate change) and been ignored by voters.
We are not good, we’re a petro state hell bent on destroying the planet with our greed and most everything we do makes Australia and the world a worse place.
Can’thappen here, also what we thought.
Thanks for the tip, but get your own house in order before lecturing everyone else. To date, we are good.
To date, we are good.
This is dangerous thinking. This is exactly what I’m talking about.
Complacency and overconfidence is precisely how fascism rises, historically.
Don’t be proud, be afraid. Look at the tire fires overseas as motivation to squash the embers in Australia now. Your election system alone will not protect you from it.
The fact that the rest of the world isn’t perfect, doesn’t change the fact that the rule of law in the USA is completely dead and presidents can now do whatever they want.
You are right about the far-right in the EU, but
- EU is not one country and has a lot of institutions, that is a huge weakness when you need to react to a changing world, but in that context it’s actually helping (people might get disappointed with far-left in some parts of EU, before other parts will fully adopt it), and even if Nazi admirers take over more than half of EU countries, it’s enough for one with veto powers to make their life extremely difficult.
- A lot of “far-right” in the EU seems to be promoted by ruzzia and now also by the US big tech (twitter is owned by Nazi, Facebook found that hate sells better than other emotions) and the US government does what they can do to block any effort by the EU to control them. So basically cutting ties with the US can help with this
but far-right populism is surging in the EU and some other parts of the world.
Why is the typical American response always “No U!” ?
The problem is not that Republicans are far-right. Nowhere in the article does it say former allies are distancing themselves because of the far-right in America. The problem is the actions of the administration: a single person constantly threatening allies, tearing up agreements from previous administrations just because, tearing up agreements from his own administration just because, and zero resistance from the other branches of government or the citizens for doing so.
Former allies are distancing themselves because the word of the US means absolutely nothing. It doesn’t matter what they promise, the US has shown no deal or agreement will ever be honored, and there are no mechanisms in place to make sure previous agreements are honored. Why would anyone make a deal with someone who will ignore it the next day?
It’s typical American learned helplessness: “The far right exists everywhere in the world so there’s nothing we can do about it.”
That is precisely the opposite of what I meant.
Ideology is what gives Trump the power to do what he wants, what put him there, what enables him and stokes him. He is a symptom.
I am arguing the exact opposite; not that there is nothing that can be done, but that other countries should take the exact opposite approach the US took and take immediate, drastic action before it’s too late.
I did not mean to drag specific US politics into this at all, but to use it as an example when one assumes their country is on a better trajectory than it actually is. The EU is not in a good place, Australia and Canada are not on good trajectories, and if they don’t act as if they are one election away from populist fascism, other countries will find themselves with leaders trashing alliances, too.
In other words:
This article ^ could be your future.
If you’re confident your voter base is “above that,” you should take a closer look.
I did not mean to drag specific US politics into this at all,
Which is part of my issue. The article is specifically about US politics, and you don’t want to talk about US politics, instead you go on a tangent about other countries.
A contributing factor to the issues in the US is that Americans seem to be unable to stay on topic about anything long enough to take action. Trump does something that would have ended the political career of any other president, but before anything is done about it you’re taking about the next thing, and then the next thing, and the first thing is already forgotten.
Here we are talking about the impact of the actions the US government is currently taking, and Americans start taking about how other countries might start doing it in the future. On another article that was about a far right party in another country I saw Americans talking about “all the people who told us to take action…” Making it about America. It’s never about the actual topic.
Yes, I realize it’s “not all Americans”, but it is “always an American”. And I don’t mean when it happens it’s an America doing it, I mean every time an article is posted about the shitstorm happening in the US there is always an American pointing out that the far right exist elsewhere. It gets so fucking old and it isn’t helpful. People know. Pointing out the nightmare happening in the US does not mean people are unaware of the far right in their own countries, and talking about what is happening in the US is more helpful to encourage people to prevent it happening in their own countries because they can see where it leads.
I was responding to this comment:
It’s like this. No shade to Americans, but you guys can do this shit in any four year period. You elected him TWICE. No hard feelings, but you’re on your own.
I see this “it’s not the same here” attitude a lot, because it is. I think it’s dangerous to write it off as “America did this to themselves,” like the same thing isn’t in progress all over the globe.
I’m specifically not trying to belittle other places, or look down upon them; I have no leg to stand on. I am trying to WARN them to not get comfortable. I am yelling “this exact same shit is cooking in Canada, and Australia, the EU, all over the world, so burn it out with fire while you can.”
They re-elect him every day they sit on their asses and allow MAGA to feel safe in public. PLENTY of shade.
You’re right, we need a lot of reform.
You’re not wrong to feel that way and you’re not wrong that it is a common opinion, specifically among Europeans. That said, I don’t think your politicians are nearly principled enough to stick to that stance. Some of them say it now because people want to hear it but the moment it becomes less awkward to do so they’ll go back to relying on America for all sorts of things that you don’t want them to. Hell, many of them won’t even make an attempt to distance themselves now, or worse, actively praise many of Trump’s actions.
The ones that make a fuss now won’t go back because of American exceptionalism but because it is economically in their interest to do so in a myriad of ways. This is why Europe has been content to rely on American military assets for so many decades. It was never a particularly good idea but it was economically expedient. The same is true of American media, tech companies, and financial institutions. It’s easier to let someone else have a bit of control in order to simplify things and politicians love simple sounding solutions.
Maybe I’m wrong and this is the moment that the EU usurps the US for good. That’s probably the best case outcome. I just don’t think there’s enough agreement between European nations on what needs to happen to get to that point in order for it to become a reality.
There is a great deal in what you say that I heartily agree with, and a few things that I don’t. I’m not European, although I do visit annually, so I have no horse in that race.
I would say that you repeat a tired American trope that has been outdated for at least 35 years now. That Europe gets more out of the NATO than America does.
The US gets a great deal out of NATO, arguably all lot more than Europe gets. For a start, the US has 31 permamant military bases across Europe and free access to another 19 hosted by member countries. It doesn’t really need to ask permission on how it operates on any of them. It also maintains another 275 smaller units and installations for free. This is not a one-way deal for Europe. For the US, a country that insists on projecting power to influence national policy objectives, the ability to operate like this is incredible. Does it pay rent? No. Does it seek agreement with the host country? No. It bombs first and informs later.
Secondly, wherever possible it forces US military hardware onto European countries by way of ‘interoperability’. Those F35s provide jobs for US workers. Same with parts, same bombs and weapon systems. All that hard cash flows back to the US. There is a reason why US administrations bitch and moan about Europe not pulling it’s weight on NATO but still won’t pull out of the region. It’s because the US gets a massive indirect benefit from the deal.
But what does Europe get in return? It’s supposed to be security guarantees. But the only country that has triggered NATO’s Article Five has been the US following 9/11. Hundreds of Europeans died in defence of what happened in far-off New York. Not that this has been appreciated by Trump.
Lastly, the biggest threat to Europe is Putin. And what has been the US response? Not great. All of Europe has been watching and wondering has all this been worth it. The one reason Europe has been tolerating America taking over much of its foreign policy is for a security trade-off. Now it seems the arrangement is worthless.
I’m not European, but I’m watching events. Nothing dramatic will happen in the short term. Spain cancelled it’s F35 contract. European countries have universally increased their defence budgets, not from US pressure, but from the realisation that security is unlikely to arrive from America. Countries have failed to support the US openly. First time since WW2. The whole world turned their back on the stupid Iran war. Things have changed irrevocably. However, they will only visibly change over time. You guys are sleepwalking into isolation.
Let’s revisit the subject in 10 years and see how things have turned out?
I appreciate your response both in quality and in tone. Thanks for that.
To be clear, I never meant to imply that the US gets nothing out of NATO. It is clear that we do for the reasons you mentioned and countless others. I was simply saying, in much the same way you did, that EU nations allowed that situation to exist because spending less on defense was good for them domestically in an economic sense. It was not a good decision beyond the short term from a security perspective unless the US could be guaranteed to be a righteous actor forever and that is obviously not something that can ever be guaranteed. Treaties and alliances are great. Dependence is not.
It is true that some countries have taken action to distance themselves from the US under Trump. It is also true that many of the citizens of the EU want their governments to take more action on that front. As an American, I would rather the EU lead the world in most respects as I trust most of their governmental systems to represent their people better than ours does.
Still, money rules the world and the US has a lot of it. Greed is a powerful motivator and I would bet that it is going to entice a lot of European politicians to make unpopular deals with the US and it’s corporate representatives under the next administration. Despite the EU as a whole better representing it’s people there are still too many instances of their governments manipulating or outright ignoring popular sentiments for me to believe that something like sidelining the US is within the realm of possibility, even if most of their citizens wanted to do so.
As a last note I would add that I believe eliminating reliance on the US is something the EU absolutely should do as much as possible. It is the only reasonable answer to the insanity taking place in our government. Nothing I’ve said should discourage action towards that goal. I’m just trying to be realistic about how I see that playing out.
Great reply!
Putin
this is exactly what putin wants, plus hes pretty much bankrolling most of eus far right gonvernments, to this end. needs a divisive west, so he cant take over former soviet bloc with much resistance.
As long as china, india doesnt get in his way, and they dont seem to mind that russia is a useful tool for them.
It’s not even Trump, they gave him the Congress and Senate too. They REALLY went all in on the Republicans for some fucked up reason.
Are there people who still don’t know this or are just realizing this?
Unfortunately, yes there are.
I talked to an idiot the other day who said Carney only rejected a trade deal with the USA to “stay in power”… they apparently are not aware Carney already has a majority, is very popular ATM and does not have to face an election for some 3 years.
Some people are just too dumb to realize when they are wrong and will die on their chosen dumbass hill
I do have to wonder about their logic. If rejecting a trump deal kept him in power, one would conclude that a majority of Canadians agree that we should not make that deal, or a majority of his base.
So even in their own dumbass world their explanation still makes no sense
well let me explain, you start assuming they have any logic… you just went down the rabbit hole from there
Carney rejected a Trump deal because Canada is a democracy. This is terrible!
thats definition of a low information voter. conservatives are almost always low info, they voted for R, but never follow up the policies, just that did vote. thats how they see it as a team sport.
Yes, the people that dont follow the news, poltics at all, and the republicans that dont follow anything after they voted.
It happens more slowly than you might think.
Here in Australia the US has been our major ally since WWII and is generally seen as the enforcer holding off Chinese expansion in our region.
When the tariffs were announced ours were minimal and largely to our benefit anyway.
The general feeling was, the Americans are having a bad day, but we can weather that to maintain our long term relationship.
We have an agreement with the UK and US to build nuclear submarines, which would be helpful in maintaining control in south east Asia. This is a long term strategy with many billions involved, likely to stimulate entire regions in Australia. However, the arrangement is looking very unappealing presently and no one actually believes the US will deliver on their end.
I think the summary is, everyone knows that Trump is not a reliable partner but he will be dead soon, and these relationships run pretty deep.
Trump is not a reliable partner but he will be dead soon
But you can’t rely on the US being a reliable partner at all then. In 4 years the citizens could just vote in someone just as unreliable as Trump who will throw away previous agreements on a whim. They’ve already done it twice, and it’s clear the US has no mechanism in place to make sure it holds to previous agreements.
Perhaps another way to say the same thing … other sane governments are reliable partners, and it’s worth upholding the agreements we have made for the moment, while we make other plans.
People voted for Brexit, people voted for AFD, people voted for LePen, people voted for Meloni. Y’all tend to forget that this isn’t only an American problem.
How am I being dense?
Well, for one, you replied to yourself and not to the person who replied to you.
Oh, no. A mistake!
Answer the fucking question, jackass.
You can’t be this dense though
The average American citizen wont understand or care about this, and yet I do imagine there are pretty negative long term implications for them, along with all the other garbage being piled onto them.
I brought up that the cost of diesel has gone up massively (particularly at the start of the Iran conflict) and has started to rapidly balloon again to a co-worker at my 2nd job said he did not care about the price of diesel because he doesn’t use diesel…
I carefully explained to him that everything is shipped over land is using diesel and this will cause the price of everything to go up and he pushed back again saying “Well everything is going up in price anyway.” Its like dude WTF do you even do with people like this? I did not even touch on the expense of using heavy construction and farming machinery also increasing costs of everything…
He described himself once as someone who agrees with democrats on social issues but thinks republicans are better on the economy and I internally was like DUUUUDE THIS IS THE FUCKING REPUBLICAN ECONOMY RIGHT NOW YOU FUCKING TROGLODYTE AAAHAHHAHAHA WE FUCKING DESERVVVVE THIIIIIIIISSSS.
The end of an empire ?
I always knew conservatives (regressives) would destroy America. I just didn’t think it would be so fast and so aggressively stupid.
Trump is the symptom not the cause.
If anything Trump is doing the world a favour by dropping the pretence that the US is a good global citizen that just happens to have hundreds of military bases worldwide, an infinite money hack and nukes.
The US is a brutal imperialist power that genocides or destroys anyone who gets in its way. People with sense have known this since before Vietnam but the narrative pushers are finally high and dry.
He’s both
A thousand upvotes
In the end, the world will thank Trump for freeing them from American shackles. I hope that this is the beginning of the end of US dominance.
Trump is going down in history as the environmental President forcing the world to buy EVs or starve.
That, to me, is the truly ironic part.
It’s not that anyone is going to thank him. He’s an asshole and let him die in ignominy. But if we can survive his fucking around, there is a better world on the other side of it where one country doesn’t get to lord over anyone else.
This is what Putin wants to see. Chaos in the West.
It’s what the Trump’s want to see too, families tend to have similar values – and Jr just married a Russian plant from Putin’s circle, wedding paid for by her dear russian oligarch buddy. It’s also what the majority of Americans want to see, based on how they voted.
Only like 1/5th of Americans voted for Trump. The problem is more that people stayed home. It’s disillusionment with the system and a lot of voter suppression, MAGA isn’t actually that popular. Which makes the Democratic loss even more embarrassing
If I lived in an apartment that had rats in my unit, and I was too lethargic / apathetic to deal with it – and then those rats started infesting / destroying all the other apartment units in the building – it’d be my fault shits getting rat’d, and there’s no amount of “nah, not my fault, I didn’t elect the rodents, I didn’t formally invite them in, I didn’t even bother to get out of bed” that would realistically make my neighbours go “oh, ok then, continue on with your rat infested shit hole lifestyle”.
They’d rightly find ways to fine the fuck out of me / kick me out of the building.
America has a whole lot of very wealthy people, people who claim to be progressives and to care about things like human rights – who basically lied/didn’t really care about those topics, and preferred to just kick back on things like luxury yachts while preaching on about how no one takes climate change seriously. But even more, America IS a democratic system. In other regions of the world, where people live under dictatorships, like in Iran, North Korea, parts of China, Russia, etc – you can make a fairly clear differentiation between their “people” and their “government”. The reason for that is that the people don’t have a “representative” democracy/government, where they’ve gotten a chance to vote for who runs the country. Americans DID have that choice, and opted for Trump - be it through apathy or idiocy. They collectively decided, through a representative democratic process, to have a convicted fraudster, rapist, and alleged child molester, diaper shitting orange octagenarian be their representative / leader. Twice.
America is on Putin’s side, though. When America is weakened, so is Putin.
While the United States is currently on Vladimir Putin’s side, Vladimir Putin has never been on the United States’.
Puton is busy hiding from zelensky, nobody’s scared of putin no more buddy. Can’t use that boogeyman anymore.
And the west grant him his wishes by self destruction themselves by themeselves
Putin would have benefited had he never attacked Ukraine. Now he’s impotent.
The only way we can even begin to fix this is if the entire Trump crime family & their enablers are indicted & incarcerated. The entire cabinet belongs in prison or in RFK Jr’s case, executed for innumerable counts of Depraved Heart Murder.
No. Trump is just a symptom .
We desperately need the US Empire to fall. They lead war all around the world for decades and most conflicts are born from them or our two precedent empires : Russian and English.
They simply have too much power and absolutely 0 ethic.
As an American, won’t the US falling affect us too?
Will affect the whole world and, of course, people living in the US first.
I’m not saying that lightly. I live upstairs (Canada) and we would be highly impacted too.
Yet, I’m persuaded the US empire will and should fall. We need to move away from neo liberalism or we’ll simply all die and/or live miserable lives. AI, ecology, war, choose your poison.
Be careful what you wish for.
We desperately need the US Empire to fall.
I dunno, like I see where this is coming from, and partially even would agree, but the power vacuum would also be disastrous.
…and personally I’d just like to know what the hell to do about it in the grand scheme of things, so me and the rest of my peasant family and the rest of us aren’t stuck suffering and holding the entire bill on account of a handful of monsters bent on ruining the world.
A reminder to study how people pushed through the collapse of their homelands in the past…
Edit: lmao at the downvote like “you aren’t people, USAmerican, get fked 🖕” LOL
Yeah, I feel you.
If there is ONE thing I can give to Trump, it’s that he’s preparing the world for it.
He’s destroying NATO as it exists, ruining the petrol dollar, destroying the US soft power world-wide. I don’t think anyone did more for EV and solar than him the last year…
But yeah, it will be a mess. From my pov, the natural filler would be China. It as pros, it has cons. EU could gain a lot too but I really fear they won’t have the wisdom to move away enough to net get caught by the blast.
We’ll see I guess ^^
At least from my perspective there is a big party that said they are on board with it so there need to happen a lot of things but going back to have America so deeply integrated should never be done.
After WW2 the us wanted Germany to not be armed and now they complain. America wanted eu not be armed. Now to say we are abusing usa? NA there is a lot of stuff you guys need to change but I’m the meantime we need to get rid of our dependence and cut some ties.
No argument here. I think the EU was stupid for allowing any of this to continue this long. Those ties should have been cut in 2016.
At the same time, you’re very much about to have your own set of fash problems between Ruzzia, the AfD, Meloni & LePen. Good luck.
For Europe, it’s a long overdue reality check that we were way to dependent on the US for defense.
This is not what Trump intended, so he does not get credit for that from me but there are benefits.
Not only defense. Software!
Right? Thanks for massive Linux and renewable energy adoption , moron hahahaha.
I’ll take a faint glimmer of silver lining there.
Defense, computing, electronic payments…
I agree… we just fall behind. Comfort is never a good thing for progress.
In 2000, the Simpson’s episode “Bart to the Future” predicted a Trump presidency that left the economy in shambles for Lisa. It’s funny how mild it’s foreboding prediction when compared to what his actual presidency has become. I realize his support is tanking, but it’s still way too high, specially for a now severely compromised federal system.
All that post-WWII goodwill … Gone.
And the bad guys in WWII seem to be making a bit of a comeback
And you won’t believe their stance on Israel!
No Trump. Americans.
The first term was forgivable as long as they learned from it. Instead they celebrated it and cried out for more.
It’s happening in Germany. It’s happening in France. It’s happening in Australia and Canada and Italy and Japan and pretty much everywhere. Somehow, in spite of a proven record of failure and catastrophic consequences, right wing ideology continues to grow like a cancer across the globe.
The US got to this point with help from foreign billionaires, as well as domestic ones. Elon Musk, Rupert Murdoch, Sundar Pichai… The grift is global and putting your vitriol toward those who might take your side will leave you friendless when it happens to you where you live.
People gave up instead of showing up and that was a costly mistake.
Many people mean well, even if they live in bad places. Have the grace to encourage them to keep resisting, even if that resistance is as small as protest or even voting, for your own sake.
Try to take hybrid warfare into account. Not for nothing was Putin paying buildings full of trolls to poison internet culture for years and years. They couldn’t automate it with an LLM back then.
The tech bros will be more than happy to help him automate some of that work. You know, to promote ‘free speech’.
No war but class war - hating the people of any country is bullshit.
Need to caveat this that not all Americans. The country is incredibly polarized and pissed off at itself from within. It’s a hot cesspool mess inside and there are many who sympathize with the rest of the world and abhor the cancer within.
It’s totally irrelevant if it’s all USians or just a few of them. The US is a inherently unstable country, winner takes it all. When people elect a less idiotic president, it will just take a few years until the next Trump-Level guy wins again.
Also the republican presidents I experienced in my life got more unhinged every cycle, Regan, old Bush, young Bush, Trump. Who will be next one? One day there will be another Republican president.
The only way out would be a fundamental refactoring to not be a failing democracy.
Pigs will fly through a freezing hell before that happens. So the only rational thing is to understand the empire fell, the King has no clothes and keep a wide berth around the US in all future dealings.
Who will be next one? One day there will be another Republican president.
Yes. Just look at two prominent, potential Republican presidential candidates for the next few decades: dark lord and antichrist lecturer Peter Thiel’s boy JD Vance and unhinged, rabid anti-communist Marco Rubio. There are probably others of a similar caliber, but I try to forget.
Yeah, the system is rotten and appears to be reaching its experimental conclusion. Technofeudal Christofascism wants so badly to hammer the final nail in the coffin of so-called American democracy (which was always a facade for corposlavery…or just straight up slavery).
If the country ever actually gave a shit about true democracy, ranked preference voting and much more representative chambers would have existed. But it’s only ever been about wealth and classism, it’s just now the facade has been completely torn off to expose the rot for everyone to smell.
Except it becomes relevant when the few are being told they are the reason why their country is the way it is.
It’s a brush that paints both aggressors and actual victims in the same light and while I can accept people calling the US a failing nation but I feel a deep resentment towards people who just say “Americans are the problem.”
Same people are also the first to tell me I need to do something that’s liable to get me killed or worse.
And how does “not all Americans” limit the damage to the rest of us?
Might provide a little hope that Americans from within are actually more on your side than his.
Look, I’m sorry for all this stupid horrible shit happening because of the absolutely asinine decisions being made by fascist hopefuls elected by arrogant and ignorant sociopaths. My hate for today’s reality runs as deep as yours, but it gets to be accompanied by its best friend, shame, as well.
You are not at fault. But nothing good will come from all this and it is what it is.
Everyone ignoring that he still has a 40% approval rating. That’s 137m people who like what’s going on.
Let’s just lock the door and wait for the dumpster fire to burn itself out.
Recent polls have his approval down to 29%. Which is still way too high, but when people can’t heat their homes this winter, I expect those numbers to drop even further.
You going by fox new polls? Not sure how else you’d find an approval rating that high.
Yeah, a lot of people are still in love with him. They’re brainwashed lead-poisoned idiots and fascism lovers. Makes me wish it were easier to emigrate out of the dumpster fire.
I can’t stand this argument. It’s the exact same logic as blurting out “not all men” when women rightfully express how they should be cautious when interacting with them in certain contexts.
Sure, not all Americans. That just doesn’t matter in the slightest when there’s a large enough chunk of them to get the world in the mess it is now. If they get their shit together maybe people will stop generalizing as a means of precaution for the sake of sparing headaches. The problem is with them as a whole, not the people understandably steering clear.
Not at all comparible in the least because in this context “men” in this context are also victimizing other men. This is the equivalent of other men ALSO having to be cautious when interacting with other men.
In making this comparison you are just generalizing all Americans and basically saying they get what’s coming to them regardless of whether they put the clown in power or they are in fact victims of said clown. All the generalizing does is socially lock them in with the room with their abuser.
A clear majority of voting Americans either voted for Trump or didn’t vote because they didn’t care if he won. Its not just one idiot.
A clear majority is not necessarily everyone. 51% constitutes a clear majority.
Everyone under 18 was ineligible to vote and their opinions were immaterial. Convicted felons can also have their voting
rightprivilege revoked.So, just realize a lot of people are pissed and suffering from within, too.
49.8% of people who voted, and ~65% of voters voted.
So about 32% of all voters voted for Trump, and 35% did not care enough to stop him.
Yeah, and fuck those 35% pieces of shit.
As your historical enemy how many presidents do I have to go back before it becomes all Americans?
The good ones fled after the revolutionary war.
If only there were some way to choose where to be born. Wasn’t given much of an opportunity to flee after the revolutionary war.
I apologize for your parents being terrible people. At what point are you able to renounce your citizenship?
Yes, because denouncing citizenship would absolutely be the most viable solution in finding a place to live. Other countries love to accept nationless humans.
Then how do you assist America’s enemies?
When another country gives me citizenship, being a stateless person would suck
Historical enemy? So Russian? Glass houses, man.
You should learn more history if you think Russia is.
For most of the past century they have been. What country are you from then?
Canada.
Canada hasn’t been our enemy since the treaty of Ghent when Canada was still part of the UK. Perhaps you ought to learn some history.
Oh, yeah? Who voted for Brexit? Who voted for LePen? Who voted AFD? Who voted for Meloni? Don’t be so quick to blame Americans when your own countrymen are doing the same shit.
Brits didn’t vote for Brexit twice, Le Pen has never been president of France despite three attempts and AFD has never had any real power in Germany. I’ll give you Italy’s Meloni, but the rest are just weak whataboutisms.
Brits didn’t vote for Brexit twice
Why would they? It passed.
AFD has never had any real power in Germany.
Won Saxony, didn’t they?
Le Pen has never been president of France despite three attempts
Only got 8% less of the vote than Trump.
Almost twice as many Americans voted against Trump as people live in your entire country (assuming Canadian from the instance). That’s a ridiculously ignorant blanket statement to make. I loathe our government and the assholes who support it as well, but I don’t hate entire countries for having evil shitty leaders.
The point, you are missing it.
It’s not that “not all Americans”, it’s that you inflicted him on the rest of us. If you are butthurt at the rest of the world for rejecting the US you might have a rethink.
I didn’t inflict him on anyone - I voted against him 3 times. Rejecting the US government is the absolute correct response, as it can’t be trusted. But a country’s government is not all of its people.
Once again, personal responsibility doesn’t mean shit. The Americans inflicted him upon us. That you personally didn’t has no actual bearing on reality. You may not like it, you probably hate it, but you share collective responsibility for Trump as a nation.
So, if the rest of the world reroutes around you as a damaged and dangerous state, that should be an expected outcome. Save your pouting, and collectively deal with it.
Saying that, I do appreciate your helpless frustration. But we all have our own political problems in our own countries. If your country is a absolute fucking trainwreak and set to destroy all normal and reasonable order, we owe all of you nothing. And if you open your eyes real wide you can see the globe rapidly sidestepinng away from you in real time. This situation won’t change an inch if you elect a jolly, sane Obama next time. Because elemental MAGA runs deep in your DNA. The only question is when will it surface next?
The rest of the world rerouting around us a damaged and dangerous state is fine, the correct course of action even. But hating an entire nation of people for their leader is an ignorant response. In meatspace people have to do what the can to protect themselves from malicious governments like ours. Online, I’m an individual, and so are you. What our governments do means fuck all here.
I probably hate our government more than you - it almost certainly affects me more. But bigotry is not okay.
You will probably have to point out where I said that hating all Americans is ok? I don’t think that I said anything about hating anyone. I said, more or less, that America is a damaged society. Others have pointed this out as well. It’s just best to ignore them, work around them and hope for the best. This crap won’t end with Trump.
This is a cliche, fair enough, but my best friend is American, and now an Australian. Why would I hate him just for being born in a different place. I’ve also acknowledged that a great many Americans hate Trump. That is immaterial. He’s still your representative, he acts in your name and almost 50% still vote for him. All the rest doesn’t change a lived reality.
We can’t change the minds of other people, all we can do is act on the situation we’re in.
We are going to sooner or later have to take out the fucking trash.
When the time comes and this shit rises up in other countries like Germany, these countries do not expect help from us nor will they get it.
Because we’re busy solving our own problems for once.
This is a basic thing that will always exist, countries with terrible governments. All I’m saying is to not judge an entire country by its government. Boycott it, hate the government, all fine. But don’t hate the PEOPLE simply because of where they live. Except the ones that support the government, of course!
hate entire countries for having evil shitty leaders.
This is a popular thing to do on lemmy and it’s honestly 50/50 if you get downvoted to hell for saying it’s bad.
Any thoughts about my reply?
When people are advocating for the “lesser evil” of genocide, it’s pretty easy to call them all evil pieces of shit, you know?
Yup, one of the nice things about Lemmy is that downvotes mean even less here than they did on reddit!
Yeah I wish I could just turn them off for me globally. My mobile app doesn’t allow that unfortunately.
I assume you’ve been online in the last four years, and seen that all Russians are at fault for the invasion of Ukraine?
Why would you assume that Americans wouldn’t be seen similarly?
I’ve seen it said, and it’s dead wrong. Why would this be any less wrong?
Whether it is wrong or right is irrelevant. It is.
It’s an incorrect claim that’s made, yes. That doesn’t mean you also have to make it.
I hope the entire world turns its back on America.
If they can do this to me, one of its own citizens, imagine what they’ll do to you.
because I’ve been hurt I want to hurt them
gee, that sounds eerily familiar. where have I heard that mentality before I wonder…
Maybe stop hurting the rest of the world.
??? That’s not at all what was said.
let’s break it down into the three statements.
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I hope the entire world turns its back on America.
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If they can do this to me, one of its own citizens,
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imagine what they’ll do to you.
Statement 2 has identified them and implies that statement 1 has happened to them.
Statement 2 has a qualifier, they are a citizen of the US.
Statement 1 expresses they hope the world turns their back on the US like they have implied happened to them in statement 2.
Statement 3 is a direct threat to you that the US will force statement 1 on you just like them in statement 2.
when you reduce it down, logically, they are saying: “I hope Americans are hurt because Americans hurt me, and they’ll hurt you like they hurt me, so hurt them first because I want them to be hurt like they hurt me.”
this is logic 101 shit.
this is logic 101 shit.
I wish you’d have used some logic on your first reply, you’ve just added nonsense.
then please, by all means enlighten me with your logical assessment of their comment.
It was very self explanatory.
ok, so you’re just a troll.
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