- cross-posted to:
- nottheonion@lemmy.world
- cross-posted to:
- nottheonion@lemmy.world
Some Samsung smart fridges stopped working on Tuesday due to a firmware update.
Korean outlets were the first to report the problems, which affect Samsung’s Bespoke AI line of fridges. Star News Korea, per a Google-provided translation, said that most of the affected devices were four-door fridges from 2024 or later.
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A thermostat, a compressor and two heat exchangers.
We solved this problem decades ago.
Had a freezer fixed on warranty recently. What needed replacing? An electric heater. Yes the freezer has a heater in it!
(It’s for the anti frost feature.)
Yea, actually quite important: need to make sure the cooling element doesn’t get covered in ice, which tanks performance.
A fridge doesn’t need AI. Or a firmware.
Or a firmware.
So are we moving back to bi-metallic thermostats?
Given the fact my fridge regularly freezes my water, I’m reasonably confident that the bimetallic strip would possibly do a better job.
deleted by creator
Remember when there was just a little dial in the top of the fridge, that you turn, from “cold” to “colder”? Yeah. That’s really all that’s required. Fancier fridges had more than one dial, that controlled individual compartments, like your crisper drawers.
I’m pretty sure technology connections has spent an hour explaining why that’s sub-optimal while also explaining the refrigerant cycle for the 10th time.
But it was so great… Seriously these people have no idea what they are talking about. Sure it worked. And they also broke, last time I had to fix an old style thermostat is many years ago luckily.
Aren’t most fridges still like that?
There’s even Samsung fridges still like that.
There’s plenty of middle ground. We had integrated circuits embedded in circuit boards for a long time before re-programmable chips started appearing, and those ones certainly didn’t connect to the Internet and brick themselves.
PICs are cheaper than discrete ICs, even if they’re programmed only once and shipped. This is why you’ll see mainboards with un-populated sections - the processor has a software build that either excludes the un-populated parts or is designed to detect and ignore them. A discrete IC would need far more engineering to be able to selectively ignore, or each model would need it’s own discrete IC.
If by discrete ICs you mean custom logic baked into silicon, yes that’s always been expensive. I was referring to off-the-shelf ICs that cost pennies, which used to be orders of magnitude cheaper even than PICs (in the days before Internet connected fridges).
Before the term software engineer was commonplace, electronic engineers used design circuits around off-the-shelf components, like the venerable TI 555 timer or op-amps, and design a circuit around them. To do it they’d need the datasheets (https://www.ti.com/lit/ds/symlink/lm555.pdf). Hobbyists and aspiring young engineers would buy books like this: (https://www.computinghistory.org.uk/det/14021/IC-555-Projects/), which were like O’Reilly cookbooks for electronics circuits. The equipment to program a PIC used to be way beyond the reach of hobbyists, and wasn’t necessary for manufacturers producing simple control circuits. If you look at circuitboards from that time you’ll see some ICs with pins that aren’t connected to anything because those just weren’t needed for the circuit, much like you describe the empty sockets in modern boards.
It absolutely was possible in the pre-Internet days to design a fully functional fridge, and more, without writing code of any kind, and it was cheap too.
Imagin not understanding material science and thinking it’s a sort of slam dunk.
Why not? I’m sure we can easily make good ones at this point.
I think from context they mean auto pushing firmware over the Internet.
show this to someone frm the 1950s
One day, transistors will cause this:
I had a Samsung fridge-freezer from around 2012, and it developed a fault where it would stop trying to be cold after two days. The engineer diagnosed a faulty motherboard and wanted about 1/3rd the cost of a new fridge to fit a new one, so instead I fixed it with a timer plug that switched it off and on again every day at 3:15am
And here I am using the same fridge that’s been going since before the end of the Cold War.
Old fridges do last longer, but from what I understand they use significantly more energy to run.
Newer condensers and DC motors are more efficient.
That’s for defrost
Half of my homes appliances are from the 70s/80s, and a handful are modern. Can u guess which ones are breaking? Fuck I will NEVER get rid of my cooktop and oven they are older than me and will likely outlive me still !
“Mourn” is a strong word here, but also, this is why you don’t connect your fridge to the internet…
The can perfectly design these devices to work even when the “smart” part is bricked.
This is just hostile design to steal your data, just keep this shit out of the house.
Why are people still buying Samsung and LG appliances? After my 1st Samsung stove died just over a year, I learned my lesson. Wake up consumers and quit spending money on garbage!!
Appliance repair guy here and I have only one thing to say: 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
Samsung should be responsible for reimbursing everyone for the value of their spoiled food.
Y’all remember when Windows updated their OS and all computers without enough memory to run it were bricked?
Because we didn’t throw a fit then, when a company’s update destroyed our possessions, now we’re getting more of it.
This could actually just be more modes of planned obsolescence.
Or Apple deliberately slowing down old iPhones to get people to buy new ones.
Uhhhhhhh too many times to count, yeah. Which incident are you referring to?
The one that took my beloved living room streaming laptop 😭 fucking windows
if Linux was more accessible to someone like me, I’d do that shit in a heartbeat. (what I mean by that is I want to download a “Linux Wizard” program, that automatically saves all my shit, installs a super easy/stable Linux version, then deletes windows, then restarts my computer and BAM! you’re good to go!)
“automatically saves all my shit” - define “all”? If truly EVERYTHING, you would need at least as much free space as already used, + some for the OS
“installs” - well, that’s possible and has been done before, it’s just that nobody bothers anymore because it’s complicated, also because that implies automatic partitioning and bootloading which often sucks at least on Linux land
“easy/stable Linux” - well, if by “easy” you mean “it will never ever ever 4-th wall break and demonstrate that a computer isn’t a Netflix vending machine” then none. Unlike on Windows, the 4-th wall breaks are meaningful, however. On Windows it just tells you “lol this won’t work, you suck, go reinstall”.
OK so I have a nice External harddrive with enough terabytes of free space to save my stuff, then what do I do? Download a Linux installer, delete Windows (somehow), Load Bootscreen(assuming I still can after I delete Windows), and type in “Run Linux Installer?” is it that about the gist of it?
Start from the installation media and overwrite Windows. As far as I am aware, you can’t really “delete Windows”, not from itself at least. No idea what you meant by “bootscreen”.
If you want, I can hop on an instant messenger and (attempt to) help you.
If I’d like emojis I’d use the clown emoji now.
I’ll do it on your behalf so that it’s used, but that you don’t have to say you used an emoji.
🤡
Thanks! Handshake Emoji
Oh, and don’t go through my history, I think I used an Emoji somewhere.
Lock me up. Try it.
Oh, so you like being locked up? 😏
I’d like you to try it
I have. Didn’t suit me.
🔒😫
So y’all need some privacy?
No, it’s ok. You can join :-)
AI line of fridges
excuse me ?? smart fridge ?? AI ?? I don’t want to talk calories or nutrients, I just want a cold beer and fresh milk & vegetables. There will be a cold day in hell before I buy an AI capable fridge. I’ll go to a root cellar long before that! (i live in the woods, so yes, I CAN do that easilly)
Don’t connect your fridge to the internet. Just don’t.
Right? Just because a networked version exists, doesn’t make it a good idea.
I just don’t see the utility. I can be pretty pro “smart” stuff, especially if I can run it without an internet connection, but what’s the point for a fridge?
Like an oven I get, though I don’t have one. It’s laziness but there is some utility in being able to preheat the oven without getting up, or double check the oven was turned off. Although newer ovens tend to have rapid preheating that really can be quick (unlike my 1996 oven that takes 15-20+ minutes)
But a fridge? What are you going to do? Ensure it’s running? Except when something like this happens lmao. The only real thing it could add is an advertisement and data collection vector, which is the opposite of utility. I’ve also seen smart toasters. Not toaster ovens, but like pop in two slices of bread and push the plunger. Why? You have to come to the device to load it. Do you leave bread overnight getting stale and save the 30 seconds and greatly raise the risk of cold toast? Ridiculous
YEAAAAAAAAAAAA.
And if you really want “smart stuff”, just fucking use Home Assistant or something local-first and self-hostable as it.
I went to buy a steamer, because my last one finally fell apart. And I happen to mention I’ll be after a toaster next, did they have the brand/model I like (it’s just been tested to toast well) the salesguy says oh have you heard about the ai one, I’m getting one, they’re such a saving atm, down from $600 to $400! I straight up said wtf, why. He said oh it looks at your toast while you toast it. It was so hard not to let him know he is a fucking idiot. He wasn’t trying to sell me on it, he genuinely wanted to buy it for himself.
Eh, for a toaster it at least makes some sense to have ‘smarts’ for ensuring various types of bread reach the desired crispynes (Lathough none of that needs internet or anything close to 400$ in value). So it would still be more usefull then smart fridge.
Toasters could do that in the fifties. Crispiness is directly related to surface temperature and you can detect that with nothing fancier than a bimetal strip and some clever engineering. If you want to use modern technology you could use an IR sensor and a two cent microcontroller.
Using AI for the task suggests that they stuck a camera in there and use image processing to badly simulate an IR sensor. Less reliable than two metal strips welded together but also way more expensive.
My electric toothbrush has bluetooth. How much free time does someone have to track and analyze their toothbrushing?
Sticking it in a toaster reminds me of when LCD clocks first came out. They stuck them in EVERYTHING. Even table lamps had little clocks stuck in them. Then when LED lights came out everything had to have super bright led lights all over them. One to show you it was off, one to show you it was on, etc, etc. Same with everyone had to have a website in the 90s or a mobile app later. Now everything has to be connected to the internet because, well they can. There is no real reason for it except marketing.
So does mine but I actually like it. Not for the reason it was put on there, god no, but I can use it in my Home Assistant automations. Now whenever I brush my teeth my bathroom speaker starts playing the daily news highlights.
You could use it for other things too, like a reminder if you forgot to brush, could be good for kids. But the default functionality is complete garbage. Why they thought you’d want an app to time brushing your teeth when the vibrate function does the same thing is beyond me. I just got them because they were a good deal at Costco and I didnt pay extra for the bluetooth.
tft lcds got in this too because they’re so dirt cheap and capacitive touch interfaces are cheap as fuck to manufacture. Even if the parts costs are a tiny bit higher relative to physical buttons and interfaces the money saved on assembly makes up for it (and in some cases the parts actually are cheaper
Plus in a kitchen or bathroom setting this is much easier to make water and dust resistant, which is an actual benefit tbf, but at the expense of ergonomics and accessibility
You can literally go on Amazon right now and search LCD toaster. There’s the $4-500 ultra bougie American designed (not made lol) smart one but then there are a ton of Chinese designed ones that are like $50-60 because it’s a $20 toaster with a (when bought at scale) $0.95 lcd strapped on
Marketing is dumb, this is why I left ui/ux/hci work. You can create an ergonomic and intuitive system that is evidence based and the ad men will be like “but can we pander to the lowest common denominator by ruining it with some useless feature that’s objectively worse to use?” And then they just dropped the pretense and said fuck ux, embrace dark patterns
I could bitch about this for days
My electric toothbrush has bluetooth.
Someone bought it before it got to you. There is likely a version without bluetooth that was not purchased.
If people keep spending more money for it, they will keep making it.
Maybe, I got it because it was discounted and I didn’t know it had that feature when I got it.
I just don’t see the utility. I can be pretty pro “smart” stuff, especially if I can run it without an internet connection, but what’s the point for a fridge?
About ten minutes ago I installed a smart bulb in my fridge. I plan to set up an automation in Home Assistant to tell me when the fridge has been open too long. I also have a temp sensor near the compressor because I had an issue with the fan going out and now if the temp is too high I get an alert to check on it.
I also have a temp sensor in the freezer and the main fridge, again to alert me when things go wrong.
See that’s utility and depending on the sensors you choose that can definitely be local only
But skimming the page for a Samsung smart fridge none of this is in the features. It’s that it can play music, you can put notes and pictures and shit, there’s an “ai camera” that can tell you what you need to buy (though something tells me that struggles if your fridge isn’t set up like a stock image and is actually loaded with like food and condiments and shit like a normal person)
A Bluetooth speaker can do the music part likely with much better sound quality, a smart speaker can handle the typical kitchen tasks like setting timers (which can be done purely in HA, you don’t need Alexa or whatever), a dry erase board and magnets can cover notes and pictures, and the reminders app on your phone can probably do a much more accurate job of keeping a shopping list. Then you can buy a fridge that doesn’t have a 32” proprietary lcd that is a major point of failure, and you can literally save thousands of dollars (quick search shows these fridges are 3500-4k, which is insane for a fridge, even a fancy huge one).
The market for these is people who have too much money (or are willing to take on credit debt) but also can’t be bothered to spend the 1-2 hours it takes to read up on how to do what you’ve done. Samsung, Apple, Google, Amazon, etc prey on these people
The top of the line one can make spherical ice though, which is admittedly super cool
there’s an “ai camera” that can tell you what you need to buy (though something tells me that struggles if your fridge isn’t set up like a stock image and is actually loaded with like food and condiments and shit like a normal person)
What do you mean? You don’t individually label and color coordinate Tupperware containers every time you put leftovers in the fridge?
*looks at three brown grocery bags of vegetables I didn’t bother to unpack and five rubbermaids, one upside down, tossed randomly in fridge*
looks at three brown grocery bags of vegetables I didn’t bother to unpack and five rubbermaids, one upside down, tossed randomly in fridge
AI: “You seem to be running low on Nvidia, Alphabet, and Tesla stock. Let me order more shares for you.”
The market for these is people who have too much money (or are willing to take on credit debt) but also can’t be bothered to spend the 1-2 hours it takes to read up on how to do what you’ve done.
Nah. The market for this is people who go shopping for a new fridge and then see this shiny, flashy thing that the other fridges don’t have. And then “Ooh, shiny!” And then the salesman comes by and gives them a quick pitch about how this is ‘the way of the future’, soon all fridges will be like this and they don’t want to be left behind with a soon-to-be-obsolete dumb fridge, do they? And due to having more money and/or credit than sense, they nod along and sign on the dotted line, because obviously, they want ‘the best’ fridge, right? And how can any other fridge be ‘the best’ if it doesn’t have this flashy, eye-catching feature on the front of it?
We’re kind of describing the same people I think
I installed a smart bulb in my fridge. I plan to set up an automation in Home Assistant to tell me when the fridge has been open too long.
My fridge just beeps at me if the door has been open more than a minute or two.
It’s not a ‘smart’ fridge, either. You don’t need anything complex to accomplish that. I guess that the interior fridge light is wired in parallel with a simple timer circuit, and if that timer circuit is energized long enough for its pre-set timer to run out, it energizes the beeping circuit.
You could do a similar thing with your fridge. No need for network connectivity and computers to be involved. Just find the circuit that goes to the light bulb and wire in a simple electronic timer in parallel.
I have a tiny, battery powered temperature/humidity sensor in my fridge, connected to Home Assistant.
I don’t actually need it there, but I was interested to know if it would work, and it did. So now I know that my fridge maintains a steady 5⁰C.
You know those influencers who get like a few million views from building silly Rube Goldberg Machines?.. That’s the only thing I can think of to justify the toaster, and then it’s literally just taking the place of an RC actuator.
As for the fridge, the only thing I can think of is you’re one of those people who constantly forgets what they went shopping for, and need to video stream the interior of the fridge to check if you’re out of something.
As for the fridge, the only thing I can think of is you’re one of those people who constantly forgets what they went shopping for, and need to video stream the interior of the fridge to check if you’re out of something.
But how is that smart? It’s just a fridge with a camera connected to the internet. Oh, it’s like my washing machine with “AI”*: it connects to the internet, and all it can go is start and stop, but there’s a caveat… If enabled through online, you cannot start it physically it’s my brothers old one, never connected to the internet in my house.
*
AI stands for American Intelligence. It’s a hill I’ll die on.
I didn’t say it was a good solution. Especially when you make the whole fundamental function of the fridge dependent on the network.
I have a compressor travel fridge. I’ve had it for about six years. The display died this summer, so I had a hard time knowing what temperature it was set to, or if it was even on. (Crotch goblins love to press buttons that go beep).
Anywho, I got a new display circuit for it with Bluetooth. The only reason I paired my phone to it is so others can’t fiddle with the settings at the local campground.
Same thing with my e-bike. I don’t want someone else pairing their phone with it and locking me out.
Same thing with my e-bike.
Oh shit, man. I kind of want an e-bike, but I’d never want one with a phone app. It had better be usable without one, or I’m saying fuck it and building my own. And if I had the misfortune of accidentally buying one with any sort of wireless connectivity, I’d be sorely tempted to tear its electronics apart and find some way to permanently and physically disable that connectivity.
You don’t have to pair it with you phone… but if I don’t, what’s doing somebody else from doing it and e-locking it when I leave it on the street.
what’s doing somebody else from doing it and e-locking it when I leave it on the street
Prying it open and tearing the wifi/bluetooth antenna off of its circuit board.
I’d never want one with a phone app. It had better be usable without one
My e-bike has a phone app, and it’s great. Of course it works without the app, but it’s super useful to be able to plan a ride from the comfort of my couch and send it to my bike instead of entering it on the bike’s screen. Especially if it’s a route with multiple waypoints.
I have a wall oven that’s a couple months old and it preheats very rapidly. Unfortunately, it seems to achieve this by just lying about what temperature it’s at. It’s consistently 50°F to 75°F below the set temperature, as measured by a separate oven thermometer. The manufacturer anticipated this potential problem by including a boldface section in the manual saying not to use oven thermometers because they’re “wildly inaccurate”. Oh the irony of an electric oven using gaslighting.
For bonus points, even when the oven reaches the set temperature (which I now set higher than what I theoretically need) it doesn’t bother to maintain that temperature, so I have to frequently turn the oven off and then back on again just to cook something properly. Once again ironically, this was the reason I replaced the old oven. Fortunately it was only $2500.
In a perfect world, operating totally on my local network I’d love if my fridge and freezer took pictures of things as I was putting them in and taking them out to automatically maintain an inventory. If it didnt require external servers, it really could be great. Hell, even if it gave me the option of local execution it could be great.
But this is the real world and we can’t gave nice things. This should never have been a failure mode at all. If the computer in these things decides to stop working, it takes fairly few things make it run like a dumb fridge. They just decided that was unacceptable, so here we are.
I have similar feelings about washers and dryers. I’d love to hook it up to my mqtt broker and get local notifications when it finishes. But there is zero reason whatsoever for it to reach the internet.
My (not yet installed) heat pump water heater wants to be connected to the internet. Can’t imagine why I’d want to do that. I know its for peak rate electricity management or whatever, something my town doesn’t seem to do due to being mostly hydroelectric, but it has a whole button pad and screen and shit built into the side of it, I think I can manage without the app syphoning my phone data, thanks. Besides, it uses so little electric I probably won’t even bother programming that.
And I’ll bet if it fails the pump stops too and the whole board has to be replaced for $500+.
Likely for ToU rates, I could imagine looking out for weather updates, if there’s a likely power outage I could see it heating the water another 5 or 10 degrees so it’ll last longer/provide “more” hot water?
le sigh. I’d like to have a home with systems that do things like…synchronize to a clock more accurate and reliable than one I can feasibly own myself, that others such as the utility companies are using. I’d like to be able to get weather alerts and have the refrigerator automatically get a degree colder the water heater get five or ten degrees hotter, run the HVAC a bit, charge batteries, etc.
What I don’t want are a thousand little ARM computers each one a member of three different botnets trying to scrape my home network, sending audio, video, FLIR and radar telemetry straight to Kim Jong Fuck’s third testicle from the left, while also DDOSing Amnesty International and waiting for the cpu.detonate() command to come down so it’s time to buy another fucking desk lamp.
You can likely call the company to tweak the configuration of yours based on the telemetry. Been there, done that with Vaillant. Nice to be able to get help without involving a tech given how expensive they are - and no tech on site will have the data Vaillant has on my heatpump which means that the tech decisions will always be inferior.
Having an alert go off if it gets too warm would be useful. That just needs a smart temperature sensor connected to your HA server though.
Skill issue. Put it on an IoT vlan or subnet and keep it off the internet. Tunnel in and reap any benefits without internet exposure. Only thing that needs to stay updated is the tunnel and it’s host. Headscale is nice
Or just get a tablet and stick it to the fridge with magnets if you want a place for your digital calendar or whatever
Leave the fucking compressor out of it
What benefits could you reap from having your fridge connected to the internet? I’m seriously asking because the thought never occurred to me, but then again, I live in a tiny apartment, I can walk like 8 steps and I’m opening the fridge door. Maybe other people have bigger houses and takes half a day to get to the thing.
Seems like a lot more work than just remembering to make a list before you leave home.
But how else will it get important updates that protect it from the latest online threats?
But how else am I going to get on that sweet sweet subscription service for keeping my food cold?
Temperatures below 35F require Chilly-Tier pro or higher
You already have that; it’s called the electricity bill
That’s the joke. Tech companies have started taking away basic functions, so they can then sell it back to you as a subscription. BMW’s heated seat subscription comes to mind. All BMWs are equipped with heated seats by default, but you can only turn the heater on if you pay a subscription for it.
but you can only turn the heater on if you pay a subscription for it.
*opens electrical repair kit with malicious intent*
(I wonder if BMW would try to sue you for finding a way to bypass this and turn on the heated seats without it? I wonder if they’d sue you if you turned this solution into a relatively easy-to-install mod product that others could install…)
In the US, my understanding is you can do it, but helping others do it (by publishing a how-to, selling a kit, even doing it for them) would be where you’d run afoul with the law
Interesting … what law would they use to justify that?
I’m on solar and batteries. I haven’t had an electricity bill in years.
Don’t buy appliances with network capability at all.
Don’t buy a fridge that can, because eventually it will probably connect even if you don’t do it yourself via an open WiFi network or Amazon sidewalk or some shit.
I agree, we don’t need smart fridges, we need dumb fridges
And don’t buy fridges and other appliances from big techs. Period. Get them from industries specialized on that, who have been manufacturing appliances for a long time, like people did all this time
In some countries, the biggest appliance makers got into tech or bought by them, so there’s not a huge amount of choice there. I’m not sure about SK in particular. Thankfully, dumb fridges are still a thing here in Japan, but I don’t know how long that will last given how many of the major brands are also high-tech companies (Panasonic, Sharp, etc.)
Better yet, buy them used on the second-hand market.
I can’t imagine spending more than, say, $60 on a fridge. If you’ve got time to wait and look for good deals, you can often even find working ones (or easily repairable ones) for free.
Also, don’t get Samsung appliances. They’ve always been utter trash. Washers, dryers, fridges, and dishwashers all suck.
I have a Samsung refrigerator that wants to connect to the Internet. Of course I don’t allow that.
…a smart fridge should be smart enough to still act like a fridge when its confused
Yeah this is a matter of making it fail safe. A refrigerator that isn’t operating at food preservation temperatures (and freezing temperatures in the freezer) is dangerous.
Appliances related to safety such as refrigerators and temperature control need to have a safe position they can fail to when their logic is confused.
we need to start tearing out the garbage. smart appliances aren’t smart, they’re extractive enshittification.
I mean, don’t put it on the network. Now it is dumb again. Mostly. Probably not, ok fine, so just don’t buy one with that shit in it.
my friend lives in rural vermont without internet access (he can get cell phone access at the base of the hill he lives on, but not much else) - and his samsung tv keeps telling him to agree to the terms and services, and the only way to do so is for it to be online. 2-3 times a day an overlay appears and prompts him to sign in to his samsung account and agree lol. he’s so frustrated he wants to return the tv.
even without the network being present, enshittification is all around us
It is fun for me… I am a crazy fool developper and most real software professionals tell me I am dumb to think that a mistake should lead to something else than an error that kills the program (and wait for user’s restart).
So, yes, I agree with you, out it won’t happen as long as makers trust deprivating software makers (those who make softwares no one else may modify).
