- cross-posted to:
- nottheonion@lemmy.world
- cross-posted to:
- nottheonion@lemmy.world
Some Samsung smart fridges stopped working on Tuesday due to a firmware update.
Korean outlets were the first to report the problems, which affect Samsung’s Bespoke AI line of fridges. Star News Korea, per a Google-provided translation, said that most of the affected devices were four-door fridges from 2024 or later.
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A thermostat, a compressor and two heat exchangers.
We solved this problem decades ago.
Had a freezer fixed on warranty recently. What needed replacing? An electric heater. Yes the freezer has a heater in it!
(It’s for the anti frost feature.)
Yea, actually quite important: need to make sure the cooling element doesn’t get covered in ice, which tanks performance.
…a smart fridge should be smart enough to still act like a fridge when its confused
we need to start tearing out the garbage. smart appliances aren’t smart, they’re extractive enshittification.
I mean, don’t put it on the network. Now it is dumb again. Mostly. Probably not, ok fine, so just don’t buy one with that shit in it.
my friend lives in rural vermont without internet access (he can get cell phone access at the base of the hill he lives on, but not much else) - and his samsung tv keeps telling him to agree to the terms and services, and the only way to do so is for it to be online. 2-3 times a day an overlay appears and prompts him to sign in to his samsung account and agree lol. he’s so frustrated he wants to return the tv.
even without the network being present, enshittification is all around us
Yeah this is a matter of making it fail safe. A refrigerator that isn’t operating at food preservation temperatures (and freezing temperatures in the freezer) is dangerous.
Appliances related to safety such as refrigerators and temperature control need to have a safe position they can fail to when their logic is confused.
It is fun for me… I am a crazy fool developper and most real software professionals tell me I am dumb to think that a mistake should lead to something else than an error that kills the program (and wait for user’s restart).
So, yes, I agree with you, out it won’t happen as long as makers trust deprivating software makers (those who make softwares no one else may modify).
A fridge doesn’t need AI. Or a firmware.
Or a firmware.
So are we moving back to bi-metallic thermostats?
Given the fact my fridge regularly freezes my water, I’m reasonably confident that the bimetallic strip would possibly do a better job.
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Remember when there was just a little dial in the top of the fridge, that you turn, from “cold” to “colder”? Yeah. That’s really all that’s required. Fancier fridges had more than one dial, that controlled individual compartments, like your crisper drawers.
I’m pretty sure technology connections has spent an hour explaining why that’s sub-optimal while also explaining the refrigerant cycle for the 10th time.
But it was so great… Seriously these people have no idea what they are talking about. Sure it worked. And they also broke, last time I had to fix an old style thermostat is many years ago luckily.
Aren’t most fridges still like that?
There’s even Samsung fridges still like that.
There’s plenty of middle ground. We had integrated circuits embedded in circuit boards for a long time before re-programmable chips started appearing, and those ones certainly didn’t connect to the Internet and brick themselves.
PICs are cheaper than discrete ICs, even if they’re programmed only once and shipped. This is why you’ll see mainboards with un-populated sections - the processor has a software build that either excludes the un-populated parts or is designed to detect and ignore them. A discrete IC would need far more engineering to be able to selectively ignore, or each model would need it’s own discrete IC.
If by discrete ICs you mean custom logic baked into silicon, yes that’s always been expensive. I was referring to off-the-shelf ICs that cost pennies, which used to be orders of magnitude cheaper even than PICs (in the days before Internet connected fridges).
Before the term software engineer was commonplace, electronic engineers used design circuits around off-the-shelf components, like the venerable TI 555 timer or op-amps, and design a circuit around them. To do it they’d need the datasheets (https://www.ti.com/lit/ds/symlink/lm555.pdf). Hobbyists and aspiring young engineers would buy books like this: (https://www.computinghistory.org.uk/det/14021/IC-555-Projects/), which were like O’Reilly cookbooks for electronics circuits. The equipment to program a PIC used to be way beyond the reach of hobbyists, and wasn’t necessary for manufacturers producing simple control circuits. If you look at circuitboards from that time you’ll see some ICs with pins that aren’t connected to anything because those just weren’t needed for the circuit, much like you describe the empty sockets in modern boards.
It absolutely was possible in the pre-Internet days to design a fully functional fridge, and more, without writing code of any kind, and it was cheap too.
Imagin not understanding material science and thinking it’s a sort of slam dunk.
Why not? I’m sure we can easily make good ones at this point.
I think from context they mean auto pushing firmware over the Internet.
It’s a fridge. It doesn’t even need an 8 bit microcontroller from the 1970s.
My washing machine keeps asking to be connected to the WiFi. 2 years I’ve been ignoring it, which has been very convenient. I think it just wants to watch porn.
So that’s what it means when it asks for a full load…
Plus it keeps collecting socks. Pervert.
Your fault for putting socks and panties in the same load…
I caught my mother’s dehumidifier connecting to WiFi to watch porn. The damn thing was actually dripping wet.
Was it a dehumidifier by marriage? A step dehumidifier is quite the thing apparently.
Sock puppet porn.
Imagine if you could make it watch advertising for your earnings… But yes, it would need the softwares belong to you, rather than to the washing machine’s maker…
There are apps which basically do that.
It can use a 32 bit microcontroller, like mine does, but it only has some pretty basic functionality like setting temperature and shutting down the fans if door opened. Anything beyond that is just overengineering.
it does, for massive user convenience. however, the more you add, the less convenience is gained from each addition, sort of like a law of diminishing returns-type thing.
What convenience? You open the door, a light goes on, it is cold or freezing cold inside depending on the door.
The end.
My parent’s McClary fridge from the 1960s still runs on the original refrigerant.
Don’t tell me about energy efficiency when
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We are awash in renewable electricity
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Building new fridges every five years filled with e-waste running garbage software requiring a networking infrastructure on top of it surely used a few joules as well.
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It’s not in a landfill.
I can’t wait for the global energy crash, maybe we’ll be calmer and wiser when gas is 100$/liter.
for one, beeping after you leave the door open for 30 seconds. considering the longevity of a fridge, adding a microcontroller that does that is more environmentally friendly.
I think you don’t need microcontroller for that?
Microcontrollers are cheaper then analog clocks
A 555 is $0.05
A NE555 runs out of sync very fast, so it is not that usable as a clock long term. If you want that you would need further components you don’t need for a paduk MCU which is like 3 cents
Yes they are, but that wasn’t the point.
i think you do, for the counting and beeping.
No I don’t. I can use common door switch and a time relay for that, which triggers buzzer. It cost a lot more than microcontroller, but you can do it.
and why’d you do that when you can save money and get a microcontroller instead?
A timer circuit is cheaper than a microcontroller.
beeping after you leave the door open for a few minutes, also electricity is over a quarter a kilowatt hour some places.
Y’all just leaving fridges open all day where you are? In my neck of the woods “Stop staring and pick something, you’re letting all the cold out.”
fridges don’t always close properly
Well
A) Close it properly then. We have one of those at work, old worn out gaskets, fridge pops open when you close the top freezer, and somehow we can manage to figure out how to close it back up every time.
B) Replace your gaskets.
a microcontroller, couple sensors, and a speaker are cheaper
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Might I inquire as to what the convenience would be?
Digital display for thermostat/thermometer is nice.
Party Mode is convenient when adding large amounts of beverages (or leftovers) as it temporarily changes the compressor setpoint/cycle for a couple of hours in expectation of heavy usage.
Night mode / vacation mode can similarly change the compressor working profile to be either more quiet or energy efficient at times when it’s not expecting the door to open for extended periods of time.
None of these are essential features of a fridge, but they can be convenient.
all that is regulated by a simple thermostat, since the 1960s.
more quiet or energy efficient at times when it’s not expecting the door to open for extended periods of time
This happens at night anyway, and the thermostat controlling the compressor only works when required. You think analog fridges just run constantly?
Consumers have a screen and fake tech fetish.
Some things off the top of my head are:
- you could set the temperature to a number of degrees via a numerical display, which would be much harder to implement without a microcontroller.
- maybe you could have PID control over the compressor rather than bang-bang control, so the temperature would be more stable.
- these days, a bimetallic strip costs more than a microcontroller and a chip thermometer, despite the chip being much more accurate.
All of this only requires a really dumb microcontroller, though, not one with networking. I don’t see how that could be useful until your fridge could magically track what it contains so you could ask it if you needed to buy stuff while you were shopping. I don’t think we have the technology for that yet.
I think we probably do have the tech to track what’s in the fridge but we’d need a camera and some kind of ai watching it always…
Image recognition will be able to figure out the obvious items, and hopefully the expiration dates, too, but it’s not going to be able to figure out that opaque containers are nearly empty or identify leftovers in tupperware. It’s also probably going to be unable to identify when loose produce is past its best unless it’s extremely rotten.
beeping after the fridge hasn’t been closed for a while, or controlling the temperature, or turn on the lights when the door is open.
Yeah that can moatly be done without one. The beeping maybe not but the temp and lights can be done completely analog. Our old fridge literally had a push switch that turned off the light when closed (20yr old fridge)
My washer/dryer is “smart” and there’s no convenience there at all, honestly. It argues with me, it sits and flashes suggestions freezing the entire interface, it decides to just not do things at times. It’s hella annoying.
I had a Samsung fridge-freezer from around 2012, and it developed a fault where it would stop trying to be cold after two days. The engineer diagnosed a faulty motherboard and wanted about 1/3rd the cost of a new fridge to fit a new one, so instead I fixed it with a timer plug that switched it off and on again every day at 3:15am
show this to someone frm the 1950s
One day, transistors will cause this:
If an automated update bricks my fridge, warranty or not, you owe me a new fridge
If that is a problem, them maybe you shouldn’t have required OTA updates as a requirement for a fridge.
The problem would be solved by not buying a fridge that needs a goddamn firmware update to operate. Just buy a regular, standard fridge. the kind we’ve used for 70+ years. All that smart shit doesnt make your food colder, or last longer, all it is, is cheap slop garbage shoved into a device to turn a 200 dollar device into a 2200 dollar device at little extra cost to the maker.
I think there’s gonna be a renaissance of manufacturers who can charge a slight premium for slightly updated 1950s designs. modern materials, like modern cfc alternatives, but built rock solid, -it just works- tech. knobs. switches.
I’d like to believe that, but I can’t see it happening.
Of course, there is a tractor company in Alberta, Canada that is making old school tractors without all the bells and whistles, and selling them for a fraction of what John Deere charges.
So maybe…
I can dream lol.
slate truck too.
that appeals to farmers who wont have to send their tracter 400 miles away to the nearest service center to get it fixed because they arent allowed to work on their own equipment anymore thanks to john deeres invasive DRM.
I’ve been hoping for the same for 20 years and smart bullshit just gets dumber and more plentiful every year.
its not exactly easy to spin up a factory making deshitified good… and things like fridges and stoves are not exactly something someone can make artisanally in their garage.
its not exactly easy to spin up a factory making deshitified good… and things like fridges and stoves are not exactly something someone can make artisanally in their garage.
yeah no shit sherlock. until there’s a profit to be had nothing gets made.
as consumers we have to make it known we’re done buying this enshittification
Mind you, even relatively simple fridges can technically have firmware because these days the cheapest way to implement something like a defrost timer is with a microcontroller. Of course that firmware is so simple that it doesn’t need updates and definitely doesn’t need to be connected to the internet.
Other than that I don’t really see what a smart fridge can do that you can’t cover by sticking a cheap tablet on the fridge door. Sure, maybe a smart fridge can order butter from Amazon when it thinks that yours runs out but you can do the same with your phone and “buy it again” in seconds. Assuming that you even want to buy your groceries from an e-retailer.
It’s definitely a pointless price inflation device that makes the fridge less reliable to boot.
I’m honestly surprised that a smart fridge wasn’t basically that. That seems like the kind of lazy shortcut you’d expect to see, rather than everything being run off the one computer.
That is no excuse for the manufacturer not being on the hook for selling garbage, it pushes the work of QA to the consumer.
Only very large fines will end this endless streak of shit appliances. The only silver lining is that these products are targeted at people with more money to sue them.
IMHO, people who buy smart fridges from Samsung deserve this shit.
It’s extremelly hard to get a TV which isn’t smart nowadays, but that’s not the case (yet) for fridges.
yep.
Samsung has got to be the worst, most piece of shit manufacturer of appliances.
Literally ever. single. person. I know that has foolishly bought a samsung appliance, has gone on to very loudly regret it. The worst story I know, is someone who bought a samsung dishwasher and had to have a repair guy out at least once a month to fix whatever fresh hell was wrong with it, on samsungs dime thanks to warranty, before samsung said fuck it and just refunded them because it was cheaper than having what was almost a 24 hour on call service man for their house.
Samsung made their name on phones, and people assumed everything else would be just as good (when in fact even their phones are kinda shit now)
I have a Samsung tablet which I bought years ago. It’s was full of unremovable useless software and after a maybe 4 year of updates it was unusable because each version just took more and more space to the point that eventually it would fit maybe 2 or 3 applications on top of what came with it and nothing more.
To give it new life I had to install a non-official version of LineageOS compile by some random guy which has problems and will even crash once in a while, and even then it’s better than using the original Samsung version of Android in it.
More recent Samsung tablets and phones can’t even be bootloader unlocked to install an alternative to the Android they ship.
I’m not interest in from companies whose products are are activelly managed to force customers to buy replacements for perfectly good hardware.
Time for me to get on my Samsung soapbox, and it is for an entirely different reason but very relevant for why you shouldn’t buy a Samsung appliance!
Never. I repeat NEVER, buy a Samsung home appliance. For this reason ONLY. Especially when it comes to food preservation… or simply keeping food cold.
Here is the thing. Samsung will not let approved service repair companies stock parts. I repeat, WILL NOT LET APPROVED SERVICE REPAIR COMPANIES STOCK PARTS. So if you buy a Samsung refrigerator through Home Depot… and it breaks under warranty… you will get an apologetic service technician that will confirm that your appliance is broken.
Great!… I already knew that. That’s why all of my perishables are starting to smell funny. The service person feels bad for you but they don’t have the part to fix your appliance. They can order the part within 24 hours and be back this time tomorrow. Did you already have to take the day off work for the 6 hour service window???
Well this is all super annoying especially if you bought the EXTRA large capacity refrigerator and freezer… that NO ONE has enough coolers and ice to preserve…
Okay, so the service person orders the part and, dang… that wasn’t the problem!
Weird, Okay so NOW the service person will order the more expensive part that is actually the problem. All of the ice in the cooler has melted. All of your cooler food has spoiled.
The refrigerator THREE DAYS LATER is now fixed. F#*k Samsung appliances. And this is the annoying part about all their 5 star reviews. Yeah they look nice when you give them their stars but their reliability is GARBAGE!!!
If an “appliance company” will not let service people stock parts… for the love of god DON’T BUY IT.
Lastly… Samsung ice makers ARE THE WORST!!! You will only have REGRETS. REALLY!!!
Do you have a link to that not-stocking of parts?
Sounds like experience and not reading knowledge.
LMGTFY https://image-us.samsung.com/SamsungUS/tv-ci-site-resources/Five+Star+Service+Center.pdf
Samsung Parts Order Access: Authorized FSSC’s have access to Samsung internal parts ordering system that includes free shipping for quick and easy repairs when needed.
It says nothing about this. Google yields no results either. I doubt it is true. Perhaps the technician said it, that does not mean it is correct. After all, why should that person spend money to have stock items when they can just blame Samsung for having to order stuff? Not to mention the initial wrong diagnosis that does not exactly make this person trustworthy.
It could definitely be implied by that passage.
And here I am using the same fridge that’s been going since before the end of the Cold War.
Old fridges do last longer, but from what I understand they use significantly more energy to run.
Newer condensers and DC motors are more efficient.
That’s for defrost
Half of my homes appliances are from the 70s/80s, and a handful are modern. Can u guess which ones are breaking? Fuck I will NEVER get rid of my cooktop and oven they are older than me and will likely outlive me still !
The can perfectly design these devices to work even when the “smart” part is bricked.
This is just hostile design to steal your data, just keep this shit out of the house.
Ok but was it still able to serve ads??
Of course. Its main function never stopped working
Or selling data about who is in that kitchen and when which it obtained using a mic and a speaker plus some basic echo-location tech or some other intrusive shit like that, or maybe just selling info on what you buy and when.
Why are people still buying Samsung and LG appliances? After my 1st Samsung stove died just over a year, I learned my lesson. Wake up consumers and quit spending money on garbage!!
“Mourn” is a strong word here, but also, this is why you don’t connect your fridge to the internet…
Samsung should be responsible for reimbursing everyone for the value of their spoiled food.
